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Author Topic: 76 400, 452 heads on a 413??  (Read 1683 times)

Leaburn Patey

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76 400, 452 heads on a 413??
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2010, 05:47:27 PM »

I rebuilt my New Yorker's 440 with stock pistons,bottom end.Worked a freebie set of junk 452's and with the RV cam never had any problems with performance,torque,and MPG.
What you would lose in Compression,you can make up for in port matching,bowl blending,and back cut the valves.
As Steve mentioned in his small block thread--and this applies to any engine-the better it flows air/fuel,the more effecient and more power it can make.

Years ago,people thought you could make power from the bottom end.
Today,with today's Corn Whiskey at the gaz pumps,people are finding power in the top end.
With the proper cam choice with the 452 heads,the 413 can actually gain more torque and maintain the same horsepower---at a lower compression ratio. 
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Steve

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76 400, 452 heads on a 413??
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2010, 06:31:34 PM »

I wrote to the E Booger and got the following
 
--- On Tue, 11/9/10, Steve Hobby <steve@justservers.com> wrote:

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76 400, 452 heads on a 413??
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2010, 06:39:41 PM »

That was an excellent breakdown of the head casting and there were several months worth of articles there was so much information, remember it well, have it in my collection. Flow is the key. Most of the open chamber heads are difficult to improve as far as edging goes, but the closed chambered heads can gain some real major numbers over stock or untouched chambers and a porting job alone. The 452 heads (as the article noted) is still a 906 head, the difference is almost unnoticeable back to back, and they all port quite evenly across the board. The early small exhaust valve was a mistake, and I really wish they would have gone 2.25 intake on some of the more special engine combination, but has been noted in the past, the 440 would have been more competition to the 426 Hemi, and they couldn't have that. 
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Stitcherbob

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76 400, 452 heads on a 413??
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2010, 09:27:02 PM »


As far as the hardened-seat debate goes, E-berg says:

"The seats usually "go" before the valves - they get pounded into
recession - they are just cast grey iron (with a bit of nickel.)

Having said that, I think it would take many years of "normal" street driving for any problems to surface. My recommendation: just drive it.
 Then, if you rack up another 30-40K, and begin to notice a miss from a
less-than-perfect valve seal (which typically shows up first at idle),
you can consider whether to install seats in your original 
heads, or swap something newer on."
stitcherbob2010-11-10 02:27:53
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Stan Paralikis

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76 400, 452 heads on a 413??
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2010, 10:59:55 PM »

Use the 452's,  zero deck your block, and use the right pistons to get the exact C.R. you want.  K.I.S.S.

Steve

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76 400, 452 heads on a 413??
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2010, 01:09:22 PM »

I want to K.I.S.S. it even more.  The block is already rebuilt.  I was just planning on just doing the porting and dropping them on.
 
POLARACO2010-11-10 18:11:53
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Stan Paralikis

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76 400, 452 heads on a 413??
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2010, 02:31:51 PM »

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76 400, 452 heads on a 413??
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2010, 05:32:35 PM »

Know what? I haven't had any seat/valve problems from the early heads and the unleaded gas. I have 225K on a set of 915 heads (in fact, 1962 361 closed chambers and all, rocker pedistals are aluminum and not part of the head, and 4 bolt valve covers to boot), and they have all but two of the original valves (two exhaust valves changed, original seats still). Ford and GM products are a different story, they used inferior parts to start with, Ma Mopar had engineers which designed the engines for higher quality and reliability.

So, if the question remains, do you want to use the original heads without dropping tons of money into hardened seats and all that, yeah, go for it, they will last plenty long without valve or valve seat damage, 452s are not mandatory for longevity.
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Steve

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76 400, 452 heads on a 413??
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2010, 06:07:37 PM »

That wasn't the issue here.  I am trying to reduce the work on the motor swap later on.  Since I need to pull the 62- 413 from the 65, these 352's, would allow me to complete the build on the 65 engine.  Otherwise I would have to play musical heads when the 62 is pulled.  I can port the 352's and have them ready.  I have a set of original 65 heads already.  I just need to put on a set of seals.  This would make my life easier in the spring.
 
Confused yet?
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76 400, 452 heads on a 413??
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2010, 06:15:47 PM »

There are two things. Do you know what the compression is of the 413 with the closed chamber heads, as compared to the compression drop you will get with the 10cc increase in combustion chamber size. If the engine is 10:1 or above and you drop it down to 8.9:1, then you are fine, port the heck out of them, but if it is a 9:1 engine and it drops down to 7.8:1, well, she will still run like heck, but it won't be that sweet. This is a pretty close calculation of the real values, so some verification on your part needs to be weighed.
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Steve

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76 400, 452 heads on a 413??
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2010, 04:44:03 AM »

Ratio is 10:1
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76 400, 452 heads on a 413??
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2010, 06:28:30 AM »

Go for it then. You will still be above 9:1 with the extra 10cc sized combustion chamber.
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Steve

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76 400, 452 heads on a 413??
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2010, 08:32:47 AM »

Am I correct in understanding these heads will flow better than the stock 906's (Is the 906 the stock head on a 413?  I can't read the numbers on the head)
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76 400, 452 heads on a 413??
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2010, 06:08:51 PM »

If you read the Mopar Muscle article, you will find that they flow within five percent of each other, all port to the same level of performance. The 413 should have closed chamber heads and small exhaust valves (1.60 vice the revised in 1967 to 1.74). They all have 2.08 intakes, so that part doesn't change, but no, no dramatic flow improvement worth mentioning or bragging about.  Now, if you have 906 heads on her right now, someone else changed them to the open combustion chamber heads to drop the compression already.  Remember, new seats not needed no matter what.
 
Steve, print out that MM article, it is definitely a wealth of knowledge and great reference.
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Jason Goldsack

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76 400, 452 heads on a 413??
« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2010, 04:45:14 AM »

Making me think about putting the 516's back on my 361 to gain back compression..

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Jason

(Eileen)1965 Chrysler Windsor, 361/727/2.76 16.49 @ 86 mph

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