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Author Topic: UPDATE!. .It's time for Polaraco. . I'm goin in  (Read 6830 times)

Steve

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UPDATE!. .It's time for Polaraco. . I'm goin in
« Reply #165 on: April 09, 2010, 06:34:48 AM »

I actually heated both sides for slight adjustments.
 
It's still kicking my ass. . .  
 
I bought some new reducers so we'll see what happens now.
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Steve

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UPDATE!. .It's time for Polaraco. . I'm goin in
« Reply #166 on: April 09, 2010, 05:14:41 PM »

Ed
Rick Eherenberg and I have been going back and forth about the car and I brought up the injectors I bought.




 
He said with this computer system, 
Quote
The computer has very little adaptive capability at closed loop, and none at WOT.   Al little fat! Probably a lot. Kiss the rings goodbye, soon.







 
[color=#ffffff size=2 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]I have to believe that because even thought the A/F is showing it running in the normal area, it smells fat in the exhaust.  I am thinking the sensor is coated with soot and not reading correctly.[/color]
 
Yesterday I dropped the right exhaust pipe, after a highway stint, and the pipe was coated with puffy soot.  Not good.  That's what made me investigate this further.
 
So I spent two hours flushing the original injectors with 2 + 2 and 30 PSI of compressed air.  My injector cleaner is out on loan.  The two injectors in question I spotted when I removed them, infact had a strange spray pattern  A few flushes and they are spraying much better now.
 
Shadapp Stan. . . Lets see a carb last 175,000 miles.  And I don't have to crank the crap out of my car to start it when it's hot.
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UPDATE!. .It's time for Polaraco. . I'm goin in
« Reply #167 on: April 09, 2010, 06:44:17 PM »

I thought we had this conversation and the injectors were the same for both engines, although, if the injectors are more associated with the OBD I system, they may actually be different size. Don't worry about the rings just yet, if you were getting five miles to the gallon I would be worried, but I would get it corrected.
 
What is the difference in the two injector sizes? Something like 32 and 37, something like that? Retarded timing can also carbon up like this, and if you had a stupid OBD II you could adjust it a bit more, but that's just me. Have you tried upping the timing another couple degrees on top of this? I know it adjusts the injection timing also, but a couple degrees wouldn't hurt anything in that realm.
 
Oh, and my original 68 Charger 318 had 265,000miles on it with nothing ever done to the engine or tranny, but many tires and oil changes, not even an alternator or water pump problem, carb was never changed/rebuilt, so this one's for Stan, some old things are just as good as electronics, carbs can last just as long without problem.
 
dana442010-04-10 00:08:59
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Steve

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UPDATE!. .It's time for Polaraco. . I'm goin in
« Reply #168 on: April 09, 2010, 07:56:08 PM »

Ed, before I read your write up, I discovered this information.
 
It confirms the injectors I have in the car are too big
 
'98 #53030778 23.2lb/hr @ 49psi
 
Bottom line is, the stock injectors are almost 1/2 as big as the new ones I bought.  I had a choice of the 24 pound ones too, but even they may be too big.  If I could figure out a way to get my rail pressure up, that might help performance.

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Steve

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« Reply #169 on: April 09, 2010, 08:10:43 PM »

OK
 
Looks like I addressed your last paragraph on the different injectors.
 
Rick and I talked and I decided to put the old injectors back in.  So I went through the tedious process of flushing each injector and back flushing them too.  The 2 that had an odd spray are now spraying much better.  The pattern looks like the rest at 35 PSI.  Straight and fine.
 
I cleaned out the 5.9 injectors and got them all working well too.  However, they appear to be too big as well.  If you look at the chart, the ones I got with the 5.9 are 23#  They operate at higher rail pressure.
 
You can bet your butt I am going to have those 18 pounders back in there tomorrow.  I told Rick I have about 250 miles on the engine with those rings so he was relieved.  I busted his chops for not returning my call a couple of weeks ago.  It was about the injectors and the Direct Connection (damn it) Mopar Performance HP 5.9 ECM.  I wanted to know if I was OK with the stock injectors or upgrade.  Since I felt I should put new injectors in, I bought what I could find at a reasonable price.  They are good injectors, but just way too big.  That ECM was a fresh run too.  Made in 11/09.  I'm good for 20 years now.  LOL
 
BTW
Rick and I are going to the track Sunday.  I may run this, but a bit Leary with it being so new.  I'm holding 70 PSI Oil pressure and it's starting to run at normal temps.
 
I switched over to regular 87 on this tank full. . .   Now that I am leaning it out, I am hoping it's not going to ping.  But I did everything you said in the combustion chamber, I expect it to be OK.  It will probably be stronger now.
 
It will be a cold day in hell I change that trans over to the ODPII electronic Governor. . .   As I said in my PM, I'd have to go aftermarket and it's too expensive.  I got the 5.2, trans, all the bits and pieces and the harness for nothing by the time I sold off the parts on the truck.  They went fast because it was rust free.  So it was a hello a deal.  And it cut the costs on the project 3 years ago by 3 grand.
 
POLARACO2010-04-10 01:23:21
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glen cyr

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UPDATE!. .It's time for Polaraco. . I'm goin in
« Reply #170 on: April 09, 2010, 08:31:00 PM »

The imaginary little red guy  sitting on my left shoulder with the funny horns on his head made me post that picture!

Glen
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UPDATE!. .It's time for Polaraco. . I'm goin in
« Reply #171 on: April 09, 2010, 08:46:38 PM »

Glad to be here, glad you were able to find the real answer after I pointed out the possiblity, and glad you actually have a set of the smaller injectors. Not to keep harping on the OPD2 more, but I thought there was one or two years in the beginning that weren't electronic tranny, but that's OK, I will leave that dead horse alone, we both learned something important, like matching electonics with injectors or suffer the consequence.


I also don't mean to say I told you so, but, I did say that in all the engines I have done this head porting and edging to, not once have I had mileage go down like this, not once, not even close.
 
Let's see what happens now, should be quite a shock coming your way. Set timing back to the 2degrees advance for starters, go from there. Kind of surprised this level of soot didn't show up through the back window....hmmmmmm.
 
OOOOO OOOOO OOOO
 
Disconnect the battery while changing things out, minimum 20minutes, want to reset the computer to default settings to recalibrate instead of going overboard from the last old readings.
 
dana442010-04-10 01:49:05
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Steve

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UPDATE!. .It's time for Polaraco. . I'm goin in
« Reply #172 on: April 10, 2010, 06:24:26 AM »

Thanks allot Glen    Hello a guy
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Steve

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UPDATE!. .It's time for Polaraco. . I'm goin in
« Reply #173 on: April 10, 2010, 06:57:07 AM »

Ed. . .
 
The trans was changed to the electronic governor in 95 along with the ODP2 system.  Like I said, I'll go aftermarket first.  It's hard enough getting the body tied into it and it does function well, if you don't screw around like I did.  Good thing I have a good gut feel for this stuff
 
Yes it does matter matching the injectors with the ECM.  I had no information on the injectors until I did a 45 minute search and came up with the above info.  I always knew there were different rail pressures. . . That made a difference in the injector tip.  Allegedly
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Stan Paralikis

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UPDATE!. .It's time for Polaraco. . I'm goin in
« Reply #174 on: April 10, 2010, 07:18:31 AM »

I'm not saying a word.

Steve

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UPDATE!. .It's time for Polaraco. . I'm goin in
« Reply #175 on: April 10, 2010, 02:46:58 PM »

You again???    When I am done Stan, and I think I am now, I'll be getting more power from a smaller engine.  With little information, it's hard to put all this together so it is just right.   You'll have to keep the tub you drive out of my way.    Read on.


 
Ok here's the latest saga.  And I mean Saga!
 
I mentioned I flushed the injectors yesterday.  I thought I screwed them up.  I installed them, while doing so, I turned off the pooter so it would clear it's learned data.  Took about an hour to replace the injectors, I've got it down to a science now.  Book calls for 2 hours.  Hooked the 5.9 pooter back up and it ran like crap.  Way too lean and it just would not learn anything.  The A/F gauge was at zero.  That's how lean it was.  No power, popping, really bad.  So I retarded the timing a tad.  NADA.  Started to check each injector one by one.  Not here either.  MMMMMM
 
So I put the 5.2 HP pooter back on.  Fixed everything.  Talking about matching. . . .  It was a luck guess
 
My guess is two fold, I spiked the pooter when I connected it a scrambled it.  Or it could not feed enough fuel from these injectors.  Either way, the 5.2 has this thing screaming now.  And I mean it's better than it ever has been.
 
I am able to return the new injectors I bought.  So they are boxed already.  I have to call Summit on the 5.9 pooter.  Mybe I can get bailed out on 500 bucks.
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« Reply #176 on: April 10, 2010, 06:28:38 PM »

Now we're talking. I personally think there is more problems getting the electronics/fuel injectors corrected to each other, because from the little testing I have done and discovered, going smaller cams is OK, larger cams have a limit, but it isn't a flow of air volume, it is the overlap bleedover of the intake to the exhaust that is the only problem with stock computer systems. So the improved flow wasn't the problem, the hard internal parts aren't the problem, it is the computer reading what those parts do and being able to calibrate very little.
 
I do have to say, I think we all learned a lot more about parts swapping components electronically on this build than anything else.
 
As far as the barrel intake goes, my 95 Dak 3.9 still runs the throttle body intake vice barrel intake, think there was one more year before it went barrel intake. I prefer this style because there is more hood clearance if nothing else.
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Steve

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UPDATE!. .It's time for Polaraco. . I'm goin in
« Reply #177 on: April 10, 2010, 07:07:22 PM »

If I put a 4 throat TB on there, I'd have tons of hood clearence.  It's that adaptor to the dual 60 MM TB.
 
I delibrately let this go, inspite of the critisim from the southern peanut gallery.  It can be just as tricky picking and jetting the right carb too.
 
OK, I bumped the distributor up about 2 degrees and it runs like a raped ape.  But it fattened it up a bit.  I am thinking it's either the bleed over or it's the timing is increasing the injection pulse width.  Tomorrow morning, before I run up to the track, I am going to bump it back 1* and see what happens. 
 
I noticed the A/F meter is allot more responsive with up and down throttles now.  Long decels, it goes down to 0 or almost 0 when coasting down a big hill or exiting the highway.
 
I took it on a easy highway crusie, 65/70 MPH.  Maintaining 1900 RPM at 70, which is good.  MPG is coming up considerably.  Now I wait for the breakin.
 
I know Eherenberg is going to want me to run this down the track.  It's only got 325 miles on it.  I dunno yet, but it feels good over all now.  I doubt I'll run it this soon.  I haven't even tried to burn the rear tires yet.
 
Had to change the gasket on the oil plug today.  It was new and leaking.  So I pulled the filter too.  Cut it open and just found flecs of paint in it, not metal.  Probably overspray washing off.  As expected, found more real fine filings on the drain plug.  Not allot, so I am confident I have a solid motor.  I'm just glad I got those injectors out of there.  That oil only had about 200 miles on it.
 
POLARACO2010-04-11 00:08:08
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UPDATE!. .It's time for Polaraco. . I'm goin in
« Reply #178 on: April 10, 2010, 09:11:25 PM »

What about strip home window/door sealer? It is in different widths, curves pretty easy, sticky on one side, can wear pretty well actually.
 
I think you could run her down the track, which is a nice thing about roller cams and hardened cylinders. In the old days, the reason for the slow and timed 500 miles was more to heat treat everything to seat, but these days, moly rings seat within 50 miles (about an hour), and the cam requires no break-in period at all, turn the key and start her and the cam is ready to run (being billet steel or powdered metal material and case pin rollers).
 
dana442010-04-11 02:13:55
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Steve

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UPDATE!. .It's time for Polaraco. . I'm goin in
« Reply #179 on: April 11, 2010, 04:56:49 AM »

We'll see. . .  I have to get back and I'm taking the boy with me.  Momma wants me back and an I have a pile of neglected chores to do.
 
Maybe the next round.
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