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Author Topic: late model drivetrain swap  (Read 5031 times)

Stan Paralikis

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late model drivetrain swap
« Reply #60 on: February 16, 2010, 07:26:49 AM »

Quote from: stitcherbob
don't mind Stan......he has a thing for manual trans C bodies
And the problem is.............................?

Steve

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« Reply #61 on: February 16, 2010, 08:23:37 AM »

Ed mentioned porting the heads.  This is something you can do yourself.  I have a thread running in the engine section on updating a small block.  In the process of building a torque monster, 360 Magnum.
 
Before you do the porting, ask yourself what you want to get out of the car.  Is it going to be a street car, or a track car.  You want it to look and sound tough, then I would think what I am doing is exactly what you should doo.  I am working the engine for it's peak efficiency between idle and 3000 RPM.  Ed taught me porting on line.
 
Ed, he sounds like ARMY!  OoooRah
 
That's it  1st Calvery.  I was there such a short time before I got a bunch of holes, I forgot.  Nam sucked.
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Snotty

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« Reply #62 on: February 16, 2010, 08:31:24 AM »

Quote from: POLARACO
 
That's it  1st Calvery. 
 
Oh Stevo, Calvary is where Jesus died.  The people of the US Army serve in the Cavelry.
 
I got chewed out for that very distinction by an Athiest Professor when I was in college.  To this day I always hear (or read) where people make the same mistake.  Had to rib you for it!  
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Snotty

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« Reply #63 on: February 16, 2010, 08:32:33 AM »

I may have spelled Cav wrong, but that's the easiest way to remember the difference - Air Cav.
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Steve

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« Reply #64 on: February 16, 2010, 09:39:22 AM »

Thanks Scott 

Just goes to show where my mind is. . . .  LOL

But I really didn't know the difference


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« Reply #65 on: February 16, 2010, 09:44:15 AM »

Nothing wrong with Army, almost as good as a swabby in my book!
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Steve

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« Reply #66 on: February 16, 2010, 11:15:59 AM »

I noticed you skipped the Marines. . . .  That's a division of the Navy.  LOL




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« Reply #67 on: February 16, 2010, 11:53:04 AM »

Didn't forget them for a second, they are simply doing backup for the Army to begin with. Remember, Marines were commissioned when the First Continental Navy had the slight problem after their first couple battles in 1775 when going into battle, sailors themselves would go ashore or aboard ship to fight the battle, and upon return from these first couple battles announced they were coming home with hurt or dead sailors and had difficulties sailing the ships themselves, so in November of the same year the Marines were commissioned in order to have a fighting force for the Navy battles, along with discipline aboard ships(other than the Master-at-Arms rate). As times progressed, and since the Marines are part of the Navy, under Navy command (which is why there will never be a five star Marine General, just like the Air Force is to the Army), Marines are to take the beaches, Navy delivered (of course), Army to hold land, Air Force to support clearing land and skies to hold it. As it turned out with this GWOT, Marines had no shores to land on and it was determined they too could get into the fight due to its length and the need for more bodies. Additionally there are Navy Combat troops which semi-volunteer to do 4-8month tours for convoys, camp duties and support, and don't for a second forget about the SeaBees, Combat Battalion construction persons under the Navy for the setup, layout, construction and mainenance of bases, runways, civilian reconstruction, and camp security (honorary Seabee here, they are like Marines that can use heavy equipment to say the least). The Coast Guard used to be under the Navy during wartime, then Department of Defense during peacetime, now are part of the Homeland Security Department (for what that is worth).  At one time or another I have worked with all of them, mostly the last 8 years of my 26years.
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Jon Doersch

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« Reply #68 on: February 16, 2010, 05:48:40 PM »

Since the car is going to be mainly for daily driving and cruising comfortably around town, I think that I might look into the mild port work for the stock 361. I would really like to get into some edelbrock heads, but with a background in small block ford and chevy engines, I have some sticker shock at the price....It seems that the only cheap aluminum heads for big block mopars are for racing....I have seen your porting posts Steve, I will look at them again....I am a little concerned with the pistons as I haven't had the heads off too look at the bores yet...Hopefully everything is good and I won't have to do any major work...I kind of like the idea of keeping the whole combo on the milder side with no more than 350 or so horsepower...Plus I still am looking into some kind of fuel injection....
In other news....I have been in contact with Phoenix Transmission and they have a solution to the big block mopar and overdrive auto dilemna. The best way to do this according to them is to use an adapter plate and (brace yourself) a 700-R4 out of a chevy. According to them the 700-R4 fits in the space left by a 727 wihout any problem, and requires no massaging of the tranny tunnel. Plus both trannys are have about the same strength, and a 700-R4 is for the most part cheaper. The Mopar overdrive trannys have to be adapted to the big block anyway, so there really isn't an easy way to do this swap....
 
As far as Marines go...I think those guys are great. For the most part all the guys in all the branches who are in a combat job are awesome. The "can do" attitude is everywhere....What sets Marines apart (at least the ones I have been around) is the support elements. They still have that kind of attitude. Some of the rear echelon guys in the Army act like we aren't in a war zone or something.....




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« Reply #70 on: February 16, 2010, 07:15:06 PM »

Quote from: gearheadjd
Since the car is going to be mainly for daily driving and cruising comfortably around town, I think that I might look into the mild port work for the stock 361. I would really like to get into some edelbrock heads, but with a background in small block ford and chevy engines, I have some sticker shock at the price....It seems that the only cheap aluminum heads for big block mopars are for racing....I have seen your porting posts Steve, I will look at them again....I am a little concerned with the pistons as I haven't had the heads off too look at the bores yet...Hopefully everything is good and I won't have to do any major work...I kind of like the idea of keeping the whole combo on the milder side with no more than 350 or so horsepower...Plus I still am looking into some kind of fuel injection....
In other news....I have been in contact with Phoenix Transmission and they have a solution to the big block mopar and overdrive auto dilemna. The best way to do this according to them is to use an adapter plate and (brace yourself) a 700-R4 out of a chevy. According to them the 700-R4 fits in the space left by a 727 wihout any problem, and requires no massaging of the tranny tunnel. Plus both trannys are have about the same strength, and a 700-R4 is for the most part cheaper. The Mopar overdrive trannys have to be adapted to the big block anyway, so there really isn't an easy way to do this swap....
 
As far as Marines go...I think those guys are great. For the most part all the guys in all the branches who are in a combat job are awesome. The "can do" attitude is everywhere....What sets Marines apart (at least the ones I have been around) is the support elements. They still have that kind of attitude. Some of the rear echelon guys in the Army act like we aren't in a war zone or something.....





How about these for SBC/SBF prices, $899 fully assembled aluminum heads from a company called 440source.com. Good flow, good price, good parts, what else can one ask for? Check them out, new stainless and hardened, bronzed, springs, the works. If you don't want the 361 heads after the fact, I'll pay for shippint to take them off your hands, I love the closed chamber heads and nobody wants them for some reason. Heck, I'll even give you a little extra for taking the time to send them to me, I'm fair. 
 
Hughes has a nice cam HUG HEH1019BL listed under the RB engines. .461/.489 and 112 LSA, duration is within the limits needed for EFI conversion without it going haywire, and this is actually a real nice profile for low/medium power where you want it. I had a very similar one in my 68 Charger with more duration (yeah, 64 Custom 880 361 and six pack carb setup, but won't tell my application), basically an RB engine RV cam in this case, great for the 361 engine size. For an intake, use a stock manifold until you go EFI, then you want to go Torker or Tarantula single plane manifold and throttle body, injectors actually have a boss location in the manifolds already, just tap and clamp. This head and cam setup will give you a nice sound through dual mufflers, idle pretty smooth, good bottom end power and right within the cruise range for highway use (what with your gears, no, I don't think NASCAR can do that), but if you get your highway gears, this cam would be good for idle to 3400rpm, and still a little extra if you needed it without worrying about it.
 
700R4, believe it or not, is a good choice, even if I do say so myself, easy to adapt, easy to set up kickdown, and a crossmember and driveline is not a big deal. I have to admit, also, that it has proved itself, it has been pretty much trouble-free, and hey, there are adapter plates for them already, and for an automatic (you were talking Tremac 5spd a little bit ago), sounds good to me, you have my support.
 
 
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« Reply #71 on: February 16, 2010, 07:36:27 PM »

[/QUOTE]

Getting ready to duck and cover, I do not under any circumstances think dropping the open chambered (906,452, etc, they are all the same after porting, no advantage one over the other)heads on a 361 is a good idea....UNLESS you intend to supercharge or put a turbocharger on the engine, it does drop the compression down to 7.4:1, way too much of a dog to make it worth the work and wasted cost.
 
The next misnomer is the hardened seat junk. Mopar built their engines with quality metals and the valves will not burn like ford or chevy, or mushroom into the heads. This applies to B/RB all the way through 1972 when they started actually adding hardened seats (stories vary, 1972-1974). I have over 225,000miles on a set of 361 heads with two valve grinds in between, original valves, first ground at 120,000miles. I touched them up when I bought the motor about 5,000miles later when I had bronze guides put in, and at 225,000miles I replaced two exhaust valves when the machinist "convinced me" the stems on two of them were out of tolerance. No seats, new seals, seats not needed and don't let them bullfeathers you into believing it is needed.
 
 Next, 361s had 4bbl intakes, swapping to a spreadbore or thermoquad style does not improve anything other than having more vacuum plugs in the ports, and one doesn't need those. 2.5 exhaust is good, no problem with that, HP manifolds are fine for the street, headers aren't needed, just an extra cost unless you are racing. or want to look cool.
 
I know this is Rick E's answer, and sorry sir, some things just don't apply all the time. If it were a SBF or SBC, then I would definitely agree about the heads and intake upgrade, port matching stock manifold to head ports will fix all flow problems and still beat the BBF, BBC, or BBBOP.
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Steve

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« Reply #72 on: February 17, 2010, 07:30:42 AM »

361's were 2 BBL as well.  I'll bet the domination of them had the Strongberg on them.  Frankly, I don't recall seeing a stock 4 BBL 361.  Yer not thinking LA are you?


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Jon Doersch

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« Reply #73 on: February 17, 2010, 07:53:24 AM »

It had a two barrel on it when I got it...now its got a edelbrock aluminum dual plane intake and a small holley street avenger carb....And I was kind of worried that the aluminum heads were going to be too much for a more mild motor...
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« Reply #74 on: February 17, 2010, 10:43:36 AM »

No. Aluminum heads, the ones I showed on 440source.com, with an 80cc chamber compared to stock closed chamber head of 78.5, possibly a hair smaller, but the improved flow and a small cam, even a stock replacement cam (like a stock 440 cam) would add that 75 hp you are looking for without any hassles or concerns over stock components. New cam and lifters (stock replacements are very inexpensive, the 440 cam over the 361 is about .415 for 361, about .442 for 440, which is a good breather, not radical at all, like the RV cam addition to a stock engine. Port match the intake manifold to improve the flow and get rid of a dead spot off idle and you will be good to go, nothing fancy at all. Do a double roller chain and high volume oil pump (it's external, takes longer bolts over stock, easy to do at any time), and you would have a very strong and dependable engine that will get good gas mileage, but still have to figure out what that rear ratio is going to be with the 700R4 tranny.
 
4bbl on a 361 stock, yep, on a 64 Custom 880 convertible, wish I would have had a place to put it at the time, found it about 15years ago for $2000 (I haul), but I had just gotten the Charger and even though it was the wife that found it and had me look at it, I kind of kicked myself after the fact, a vert would have been cool, even if it did have rusted lower rocker panels, it appeared complete (just dead for quite a few years based on the dust on it).
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