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Author Topic: late model drivetrain swap  (Read 4895 times)

firedome

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late model drivetrain swap
« Reply #45 on: February 12, 2010, 05:16:34 AM »

Or as they say, ya gotta have a Dream to have a Dream Come True!

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Steve

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« Reply #46 on: February 12, 2010, 05:28:50 AM »

We're not telling him what he wants to hear
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« Reply #47 on: February 12, 2010, 08:28:27 AM »

A big part of it is having to go by what people write or read in magazines, and believe me, when you read the ads that say something is the greatest thing since sliced bread, well, what do you have to compare it to? The Pete and Jake front ends are good for an old 3100-3500lb coupe, but once you get into the 60s barges, well, not such a good idea. Then there is the figuring that a new motor in an old car is great, until things just don't fit. It's one thing to put a SBChevy into anything including a TR4 or Midget (the 5.7 is actually smaller than a SBChevy by about an inch all around by the way), so yeah, it is the SBC replacement other than initial cost, but the new automatics are larger instead of smaller, and that IRS would be a cool rear end to install (got a frame, one can build a cradle to fit it properly, easy but time consuming to widen or shorten it, but it is a doable thing), and then fighting with the floorboards isn't hard either, just have to take the project one step at a time and make  an initial plan to accomplish the job.
 
As far as the 361 goes, I have been batting around the stroker 361 for a few years, just figured it out this minute, there are 400 SBChevy 4.125 and overbore pistons with a deckheight of 1.433, a 426 Hemi rod of 6.860, 413/426(wedge)/440 crank of 3.750 stroke would give a deck height clearance of .010 and the only problem is the piston pin being smaller to work on. This combo comes up to 9.1:1 until the piston pins are made smaller, 1.83 rod/stroke ratio is cool, just have to work on that piston pin size. Gotta keep working on the combination, but I'll get it.
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Jon Doersch

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« Reply #48 on: February 13, 2010, 11:40:06 PM »

   As far as I was concerned the the thread isn't dead...You all have to look at where I am posting from...Being deployed has a way of keeping you from the computer every once in a while...Especially when you are in a combat MOS...Anyway...
   As far as not hearing what I want to, I wouldn't have posted if I wasn't up for suggestion. Forgive me if everyone has to explain the reasoning behind there posts, but I want to know why, not just what...I don't really understand how wanting to have a discussion about this has turned so many sour about the whole idea, I just want to play devils advocate about some things.
   Case in point: You all convinced me about the old suspension. Just because I don't bow down to the all knowing instantly doesn't mean that I can't be persuaded. With all due respect, I have met and work with a lot of people who aren't as good as they think they are who have been in business for ever....So if I take a little bit to convince, sorry.
   Also, I have been convinced about not doing the new hemi swap as well. Not because I think it would be too hard, or because I am afraid of CAN BUS gremlins or anything, but because the 361 will give me all that I want it too after all...
   As for this being a pipe dream...Anyone every tell you that doing a latemodel swap into your Polara was a dream Steve?
   Moving on, I would still like to hook the 361 to an overdrive tranny, as I don't like the idea of spending 2000 on the gear vendors unit....Are there any companies that make kits, or do I have to put the swap together myself?


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Steve

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« Reply #49 on: February 14, 2010, 06:47:59 AM »

You'll have to excuse us old folk. . . .  We forget you're in the Fine country of Irac/Iran
 
You also have to remember we've seen these discussions hundreds of times before, so don't take any of this to heart.  It's happened too many times where someone throws out a bunch of smoke and makes everyone scramble.  Only to have them die off.
 
As far as polaraco is concerned, the engine was a drop in, the trans needed a home mead cross member and it was ODP1.  I did the whole car from tow home to dirving it in 9 months.  I was planning that project for a long time and knew what I had to do without advice.
 
As far as long time shops are concerned, you got that right.  The people that brag about what they know, and their cirtifications, you know. . .The mechanics who parade around with patches all over them, looking like a General.  Those are the ones you REALLY want to avoid.
 
I'm a pretty good mechanic and on hell of a logical engineer.  But I don't brag about that because when it comes to math, I suck.  I don't brag about what I know either.  I don't know it all.  Ed can tell you about the number of times I admitted to things I didn't know
 
POLARACO2010-02-14 11:53:34
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Stitcherbob

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late model drivetrain swap
« Reply #50 on: February 14, 2010, 07:09:39 AM »

First of all, Thankyou for what you're doing for America in that Godforsaken place and be safe over there.
Next, I never want to discourage inventive thinking unless it will send the person down an expensive path to heartache....been there done that.
The front end swap was not a good idea, but the late model Hemi swap is. A wrecked base Hemi Charger or Magnum will give you an independent rear suspension you can work with, and the wiring harness should be about the length you need to retrofit into your car (headlights to taillights....everything has to be connected and working or the computer won't read correctly.) Don't be afraid to use the MB auto trans, it will be fine behind it's original Hemi. I don't think the new Mopar's front end will work without major beefing of the front end sheetmetal in your unibody car, but maybe the rack and pinion setup could be fitted with some work. Mopar Action and Mopar Collector's Guide are good magazines that have embraced the modern Hemi-into-older-musclecars and I would try to find as many back issues as you can (ebay?).
The 361 has been degradated by every Mopar mag as not worth the effort, as a 383-400 would give you a much better advantage starting with 22 or more extra cubic inches....
http://www.moparaction.com/Tech/quest1/361.html





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Steve

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« Reply #51 on: February 14, 2010, 07:12:42 AM »

Bob's right about that.  AND!  361's are all over the place.  You can get one cheap, and build it while you drive the car.
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late model drivetrain swap
« Reply #52 on: February 14, 2010, 03:40:53 PM »

Jarhead, as you can see, I'm retired Navy (three weeks ago was my one year anniversary of 26yrs active duty, and I did a tour in Habbiniyah/Fallujah '06-'07), so thanks for filling my empty space, hated the dust, hated it when it got wet more.
 
If you look at the 361 posting under engines (take a look at it, I am seriously thinking of doing it with my 361 that is aging alongside the house (swiped the lobes off a cam of the original bore 225,000mile engine, pissed me off), I have a good solution that can work for the 361 to pump out 450 cubic inches (.030 over) and 457 (.060 over) if you want to have a real sleeper, just isnt' an ofered stroker kit but can more than be accmplished off the shelf and a little tiny bit of machining done, nothing that is crazy at all.
There is another tranny solution that is being done quite a bit and has been around for about 12-14years and that is the truck 4spd auto, several kits out there that adapt them to big block bolt pattern, the rest of the kickdown and overdrive setup is all minor and doesn't require a computer to do it, minor rear tranny mound work (and they probably have some kind of supplemental mount by this day and age). You are right, GearVendors are expensive, and for that price I would like to have  a new transmission and the overdrive. May or may not need to do a slight alteration of the floorboard at the rear of the tranny due to the overdrive size, the A and B bodies need a little bump done back there, your 62 may have enough room, won't know until it is measured. There are several companies that take this swap seriously and it is very viable, the tranny will handle more than you could throw at it so that isn't an issue, but since your driveline should be ball and trunion, of course a new driveline would need to be made, not a major issue either.
 
As far as the Hemi goes, after about 2004ish the computer had "body computers" that controlled and monitored everything, an earlier one doesn't have that issue, a truck Hemi would be easier to find than a charger sedan or 300C engine/tranny, and if the Hemi had a manual tranny behind it, the computer will then be able to handle any transmission you want to drop behind her, like keeping a small block 727 and adding those highway gears back to the rear end.  Doing the charger sedan/300C IRS in back would require a little bit of math and bracketry/geometry/load analysis, and not that it can't be done, but it would take some time and thought to make it happen. You want to make her carve corners at her weight, there is a solution to that with the leaf springs but it requires a little bit of minor cutting and welding but not serious at all, and I can tell you about it if you are interested, this has been confirmed by a Chrysler engineer friend of mine, when I described what to do he simply said, "Yeah, NSTM specs...........", to which I went into a little bit of a fog, I knew it was real.
 
So here are some more options, you can hash them out, pick and choose your combination and we can get even more specific with it if you are interested in some more specifics, to which I am glad you dropped that IFS thought.
 
Here's an old story that was printed several years after Mopar made the first torsion bar front end in the late 50s.
 
Guy walks into the Plymouth dealership and says he wants to test drive the new coupe in the showroom. He plopped down $100 deposit to show his seriousness for the purchase, the dealer gets the keys, drives the car off the lot and the two switch places. There was a 392 under the hood, 727 and limited slip behind it. The guy drives through town nice and calm and towards the outskirts, the dealer getting a little nervous, this was turning out to be a long drive, but the guy was pretty calm, not doing anything radical, enjoying the accessories and buttons, asking questions, things like this. About twenty minutes into the drive they came to a four way corner, to which was a new Ford coupe and another guy and passenger, almost identical as those in the Plymouth, the passengers were different, drivers twins. The cars pulled up side by side, revved the engines to each other and took off down the winding road, through the hills and valleys, around corners, the Ford on the tail of the Plymouth 90percent of the time, speeds passing 100mph, tires squealing around corners. Just as fast as it started, it all ended, the Plymouth driving back into town, the guy asking more questions about financing, down payment, warranty, all the way to the dealership. When they finally arrived at the front door, the guy's twin brother walked around the corner and said, "I want mine in red." 
 
Now, the story is true, the two brothers argued over which car was better, they just needed to test drive the cars to do a comparison of which one they would buy. The torsion bar suspension was far superior than the Ford coil springs, and again, two sales were made vice one. 
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Steve

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« Reply #53 on: February 14, 2010, 04:24:11 PM »

Jarhead. . . .  LOL    
 
They aint go nuttin on us old Army guys
C Company, 2nd Platoon, 1st Squad.  That's all I can remember.  (things tend to get blocked)  I remember allot of pain though
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late model drivetrain swap
« Reply #54 on: February 14, 2010, 08:35:52 PM »

Quote from: POLARACO
Jarhead. . . .  LOL    
 
They aint go nuttin on us old Army guys

I have a fifty fifty chance of having it right, either jarhead or grunt (and absolutely no disrespect intended whatsoever either way, honest, I know what he is up to over "there"). I was in Charlie Company Navy Combat Battalion Guantanamo Bay Cuba watching the terrorists for seven months myself (I know, different Charlie Company, 1st Cav was down there with me, good bunch of guys), (Dennis, Katrina, and a couple other asshole storms went almost over the top of us that year before they hit the states), but other than that, I won't put into print who I worked with while boots on ground Iraq, no need to go there, only in person. dana442010-02-15 01:37:14
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Jon Doersch

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« Reply #55 on: February 15, 2010, 10:48:27 PM »

Well I am not a jarhead (just a gearhead), and I have a little too much rank to really consider myslelf a grunt although I work exclusively with them....The unit doesn't matter, but the place is southern afghanistan.....
 
As for the car, its looking like the 361 stays, its just a matter of how much work gets done to it...A slightly bigger cam, and maybe some heads....Can anyone recomend a good set of heads for a mild 361? That should really be all I need to get in the mid 300s for horsepower...or am I reading too much into the original 280 HP rating? As for the tranny, I will start looking at the four speed truck swap....Gotta get an overdrive...
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Stan Paralikis

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« Reply #56 on: February 16, 2010, 02:47:20 AM »

Quote from: gearheadjd
As for the tranny, I will start looking at the four speed truck swap....Gotta get an overdrive...
If you got the dough, go straight to a Tremec 5 speed.

Jon Doersch

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« Reply #57 on: February 16, 2010, 04:02:47 AM »

I like tremecs...in my small, light, nimble road race car...I was thinking more along the lines of something I could relax and cruise around in....
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Stitcherbob

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« Reply #58 on: February 16, 2010, 06:09:15 AM »

don't mind Stan......he has a thing for manual trans C bodies

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late model drivetrain swap
« Reply #59 on: February 16, 2010, 06:41:33 AM »

Quote from: gearheadjd
Well I am not a jarhead (just a gearhead), and I have a little too much rank to really consider myslelf a grunt although I work exclusively with them....The unit doesn't matter, but the place is southern afghanistan.....
 

One of two ways to go with a stocker 361 size, pistons themselves is the difficulty especially in an overbore. The only 4.125 pistons out there are SBChevy 400 pistons and the deck height is way off the mark, which is why the stroker info. Custom pistons isn't going to be difficult, just expensive in other than cast aluminum stock, but if you don't need an overbore no problem with stock pistons, hone and moly rings work well. You have closed chamber heads and they do really well with porting, they have 2.08 intake and exhaust valves are large enough to breathe well, otherwise Edelbrock aluminum heads work really well with this engine, 2.14 intakes and 1.81 exhaust right out of the box, but you have to add adjustable rockers to them, this package is about $1600-1800, maybe a little more, but a nice package nonetheless. This and a nice 265-275degree duration cam with a .475 lift gets you right around 375hp without sweating the small stuff, but I would take the time to redo the bottom end stock (more than strong enough, just old and wouldn't last long with the extra power),  a few durability upgrades would be a good idea, like double roller timing chain, Hemi (high volume) oil pump, windage tray, dual plane intake, electronic ignition, carb in the 700-750cfm brings you right up to around 410hp+ and more than enough torque. You will need to make sure the crank has the pilot bearing hole in the back, not positive if it already there or not, but a Tremac 5spd manual would be sweet, new driveline a must (no brainer there) and a 8.75 rear with 3.23s would be really nice, plenty of gear that way. Update to larger diameter torsion bars, new bushings and ball joints and you will be very happy with her.
 
dana442010-02-16 11:43:12
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