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Author Topic: late model drivetrain swap  (Read 4903 times)

Jon Doersch

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late model drivetrain swap
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2009, 04:16:18 PM »

Ok. So seems like the consensus is that I should stick with what I got rather than do the swap. I am a hotrodder more than a restorer, so you guys need to convince me. So shifting gears with this thread, what are the reasons I shouldn't do the swap, and what kind of upgrades are available for what I have to give me better economy while retaining the power. I am tracking a rearend swap for somthing numerically lower (2.73 range), but are there any tranny's that will fit in to give it overdrive? Or do I have to fit a gear vendors...What are the best sources for rebuild kits for the 361? I know this thread probably belongs in a different category now, but I don't know how to do that    Oh and just so everyone is tracking, the car is a 62 Newport with a 361, a button shifted tranny (727?), and a rearend of unknown numerical value (its high)...
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Steve

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« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2009, 05:12:47 PM »

There's no doubt the 62 frame will handle anything you throw at it.  But retrofitting a C, and a 62 Plucked chicken is technically not a C, is difficult because nobody makes swap items like motor mounts.
 
You could get yourself a 440 which will bolt right in and a later 727.  Imperial Industries makes a conversion kit from Push button to the lever on the trans.
 
That's a start.  Something to comsider and it's all bolt in.  The only thing you have to mess with is the drive shaft.
 
You can buy axles which will bolt into your rear and get a used 3.23 rear carrier.  an 8 3/4 is an 8 3/4.  Change the rear backing plates or get an AAJBrakes rear disc conversion.  If you did that, then you don't need to change the rear axles.
 
How's that for starters?
 
BTW, but new springs in the rear too.  Alcan in Colorado is a good choic for a custom spring.  I would also do the lower control arm bushings.  It will give you stability and help handle the extra weight of the RB.
 
The 361, done right is a pretty torquey little motor.  There's plenty available for it
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Jon Doersch

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late model drivetrain swap
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2009, 05:32:25 PM »

Well bolt in is nice, but I am not overly concerned with that. I can do a lot of custom work myself, and given the amount of stuff to fix on this car, I kind of have to anyway. I know I will probably get flamed for it given the nature or this forum, but I am already planning a Mustang II front suspension swap for this car in the near future. If I factor in the cost of reduoing the whole front suspension, getting new tortion bars, and upgrading to front disks, its actually cheaper to go with a Mustang II....So fabrication and swaps don't scare me, even if there aren't parts available...I guess I will just have to look into the costs involved with all the different swaps. I have LOTS of time, and a little less money, so a loong swap process isn't an issue....I will split this up into some smaller threads when I get the chance....I am sure lots of people will have lots to say about my suspension swap....
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Steve

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late model drivetrain swap
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2009, 06:10:59 PM »

If that were a B Body, I would say no problem with the mustang front.  However, the subframes were not built to withstand all that.  The weight is distributed to the mid section via the T Bars..   I saw a few of these done with Nova and Mustang front ends.  If the front fenders weren't buckled, the frames were cracked under the fire walls or the fenders had buckles and tears in them.
 
Yeah, guys say they do it, but they don't work out as well as rebuilding what you have.  I'm not trying to trash your idea, but the guys that did it, don't drive them much.  Don't forget too, the Chrysler weighs 1000# more than the mustang.  The mustangs front end will eventually turn to mush.
 
Same thing with these guys that put air suspension in them.  It tears up the car,
 
See the B and A Body have integrated front fenterwells.  Allot stronger.  The big cars, have floating inner fenders.
 
If you did anything, maybe clip the front like I did to my 50.  Start here and go backwards and forwards as you please.  http://www.moparfins.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2562&PN=5  This worked out pretty well, but the two bodies were similar in size and wheel base.
 
Maybe you can find a B Body Sedan and clip the front.  Then you can mount anything you want. 
 
The old man has been around allot of this stuff. . .I've torn many a Mopar apart and have an engineering degree.  That's why I never bothered to do such a thing.  The integrety just isn't there in the full size.  But as they are, they will take a beating and keep delivering.   There are all sorts of options available for B bodies.  Even Rack and Pinion
 
By the way, the 61-62 Frames were prone to cracking around the steering boxes.  In 63 they made some major changes to the sub frames.
 
Incase you hadn't noticed, I am trying to talk you out of the Mushtang front end.   You can do what you want, but I want you to be happy with it for a long time.
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Snotty

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late model drivetrain swap
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2009, 08:14:24 AM »

Quote from: gearheadjd
Plus he still has 350 horsepower on tap! Believe me though, the first thing getting changed is the rearend...I was always a fan of 2.73s....Nice highway cruising.
 
You don't need to change the rearend just the third-member, unless someone swapped out the 8.75 for another rear entirely.   I have a 2.76 open 8.75 third-member that I will never use if you are interested in it.  It has the desired 489 case.  I took it out of  my Newport.  I don't know if you would have to modify your axles.  '62s came with the pressed axles; I don't know if you need to get the newer type or not.  (Others will know.)   But again, if your rear has been swapped who knows what you now have.
 
We could work a deal if you'd want it.
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Snotty

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« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2009, 08:24:13 AM »

Quote from: gearheadjd
I know I will probably get flamed for it given the nature or this forum, but I am already planning a Mustang II front suspension swap for this car in the near future. If I factor in the cost of reduoing the whole front suspension, getting new tortion bars, and upgrading to front disks, its actually cheaper to go with a Mustang II..
 
Your '62 is one heavy car!  I really doubt a Pinto (what a Mustang II is) suspension would be strong enough.  There's also this: every person I know who has attempted to swap the front suspension on an early '60s Chrysler has regretted it.  When it's finished they have not liked the ride and the cost was for more than what they expected it to be.  The suspensions on these big cars were beefier than any Mopar product except for Imperial and trucks.  Look under a B Body and then take a peek at your car's suspension - they are night and day.
 
I'm not bagging on the Ford stuff, I'm cautioning against what I think would be a mistake.  All parts needed to rebuild your front end are available.  Time-wise it would take you less to rebuild/upgrade your car than to swap it. 
 
Obviously I'm suggesting you rebuild your factory front.
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Herman

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« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2009, 10:08:27 AM »

Why would you need to buy NEW torsion bars?
What's wrong with the current ones?

Why not start out with a puny little Mustang II in the first place?
Sounds even more cheaper than modifying everything on a car where nothing is easy. ;)

By the way, I get 17mpg with a 500ci engine, with DUAL 625cfm carbs, stock transmission and 3.23 geared 8-3/4 in the rear. Oh, the car weighs about 4500 lbs aswell... it's a 1960 Chrysler NewYorker.
I still need to connect the vacuum advance on the ignition so I can run some more economic numbers.



Steve

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« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2009, 10:34:18 AM »

well    
 
Lazy ass
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ed

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late model drivetrain swap
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2009, 12:48:14 PM »

I think someone swapped out the third member.Sounds like you may have at least a 4.10 in it.
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Snotty

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« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2010, 12:23:16 PM »

[/QUOTE]
 
Ooooo, I hate you!  I'm getting 9-12 with a mostly stock 440 and 2.76 gears!  Ack!!!
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Stan Paralikis

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« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2010, 02:28:36 AM »

By the way, I get 17mpg [/QUOTE]
That's in Euros.  What is it in U.S.?

Jon Doersch

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« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2010, 06:34:20 AM »

Kind of the response I was expecting...Let me be clearer than I have been. When I say mustang II, I mean that style, not the actual components. I had fully planned on using parts that are beefy enough to keep up with a heavier car. Also, I hadn't planned on a half ass cut and hack. Fully boxing the frame, and adding subframe connectors was all in the plan. The kit that I have been looking at from Heidts comes with new brakes and a rack and pinion, so when I say it will be cheaper, I have done the research to know that it will be. I need a complete rebuild of all the steering and suspension components, plus a swap of the brakes is in order. The reason for going the way I was going is not only to upgrade the brakes, not only find a way around the torsion bars that I cannot find replacements for, not only replace the failing suspension components, but also upgrade all of the steering at the same time. Since the engine would already be out for a longinsh period of time as I swap in a latemodel engine and tranny combo, I might as well do everything all at once. So time isn't an issue. As for money, I sourced a complete pullout for 3500 that comes with the tranny and engine plus EVERYTHING to make them work. As for time or hassle, I want the BEST components, whatever that may be. If the chassis really can't take it, then I will look at different options, but the tortion bars and old stearing and brakes aren't offering much in the way of upgrades....
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ed

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late model drivetrain swap
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2010, 06:44:04 AM »


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Snotty

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« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2010, 09:20:49 AM »

Quote from: gearheadjd
Kind of the response I was expecting...Let me be clearer than I have been. When I say mustang II, I mean that style, not the actual components. I had fully planned on using parts that are beefy enough to keep up with a heavier car. ..
 
If you got the response you expected then you should not have said Mustang II. 
 
I'm outie...
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Stan Paralikis

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« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2010, 09:43:52 AM »


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