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Author Topic: Performance/economy upgrades for Mopar Small Block  (Read 12681 times)

Steve

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Performance/economy upgrades for Mopar Small Block
« Reply #240 on: October 28, 2010, 01:49:03 PM »

By the way, I forgot to mention the new rockers straightened out the push rods too.  They improved the geometry to almost perfect.
 
Car runs more like I expected it too now
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Jason Goldsack

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« Reply #241 on: October 28, 2010, 01:53:11 PM »

Now you need a set of 4.30's in the rear and it will really chirp the tires..LOL

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Steve

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« Reply #242 on: October 28, 2010, 02:39:26 PM »

I have 323's.  I went down from 255's.  That rear, while good, was noisey.  I'm cruising at 70 MPH at 1650 now.  I'm just below the sweet spot.  Motor isn't even working hard.
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« Reply #243 on: October 28, 2010, 10:20:47 PM »

This is why we don't over tighten the rockers. Yes, it takes a little bit of finesse to get them right and after that, great. A lifter bleeding down is only going to last about ten seconds after a long cool-down/overnight relaxation of the engine, preloading the lifters by the book pushes the plunger down and actually blocks the filler hole from the oil gallery and that doesn't help anything at all as far as noise goes.
 
Lifters will come out by removing the intake manifold itself and loosening the rockers themselves. You could try to run a can of engine cleaner (Seafoam, Engine Restore, name your favorite brand of engine cleaner here), or, you may have one grade too thin (or thick) of oil in her. The newer engines  run clearances of tens of thousandths, the ones we are more familiar with run clearances of a couple thousandths on a good day, so check the recommended oil quality you are using.
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Steve

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« Reply #244 on: October 29, 2010, 06:26:15 AM »

Thanks Ed.
 
The oil grade doesn't seem to matter.  I was running 15/30 for breakin and now running 10/40.  Nothing has changed.
 
I was asking about trying to clean these up internally because these lifters don't come out without taking the head off. 
 
Remember, this is a brand new engine.  there's no crud in there and in 3000 miles, the oil has been changed 4 times.
 
I thought about the engine flush, but doubt that is going to do much.  I was wondering if there was something else that might help open up the lifter.
 
Yeah it only lasts a few seconds.  But on a 4000 engine, it's annoying
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« Reply #245 on: October 29, 2010, 06:30:49 AM »

So I take it the lifters do quiet down after a short period of time, it is just inital start-up that they tap, right? I know it is frustrating, but you just started talking about them doing this, just trying to verify it is something that just started?
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Steve

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« Reply #246 on: October 29, 2010, 09:26:25 AM »

Yup
 
Sometimes when hot after 1/2 and hour and mostly when cold.  There there are times they don't do it at all
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« Reply #247 on: October 29, 2010, 07:41:47 PM »

Roller lifters are usually pretty quiet. There seems to be an inconsistency in the pattern of the lifters being noisy from lack of oil itself (cold/hot timeframe), which would be more of an indicaiton of something floating around that isn't supposed to be floating around. 10/40 and 15/30 should both be heavy enough to prevent noise in this pattern. Lifters may be the last item that gets oil pressure, which is usually why they rattle to start and then quiet down, even with low oil, then remain that way for a while.  On the other hand and thinking about it now, these lifters have pushrods which are hollow, so, too large a hole could bleed them down faster, which isn't very likely, so we are back to guessing lifter, rocker, or injector actually making the noise, and I would remove the injector from the list because you can tell that tone from the rocker/lifter noise.  Lifter guideplate rattle?
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Steve

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« Reply #248 on: October 30, 2010, 04:56:53 AM »

Thanks Ed.  I'm thinking there is something in them causing the relief to stay open.  I guess they stay quiet, depending on where the engine is sitting when it stops.  I just want to find a way to get them straightened out without taking them apart.  That's a motor teardown!
 
No on the guide plate,  They're not even close to them anymore.  The new rockers actually wore a slot into the head gasket from straightening the geometry out.  Nah that's not it either.  They were rattling before I did the rockers.  been doing it since start #1
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« Reply #249 on: October 30, 2010, 11:17:26 AM »

There's gotta be some kind of sticking with clearances then. I remember this engine had some water damage when you got it and rebuilt, did you actually do anything to the lifters themselves or did you just wash them and install them? Remember what I said about the new engine clearances being so much tighter, it would take something the size measured in microns to make the inside stick to the housing to make them bleed down vice that .001 clearance of the older designs, which is why such thinner oils can run in them without damage.  It does make me wonder what is really going on since it is doing it after warming up vice stopping once pressure has built up, which is the norm.
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Steve

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« Reply #250 on: October 30, 2010, 02:14:01 PM »

Those are new lifters.  Comps
 
The water damage was mostly confined to the cylinders, it was several.  2 lifters had pretty bad water damage, and several more had minor.  all the lifter bores were cleaned and wire brushed, thwen honed with a brake hone.  Then the oil galeries were flushed.  After the block came back, I used my fluid pressure tank and flush the oil galleries with lacqure thinner at high pressure, both before and after the block went to the shop.  So I doubt there was any dirt in the galleries.  But that doesn't mean something still didn't break loose and got into the lifter...
 
I haven't taken it on a very long trip yet.  That may make them loosen up.
 
Irronically, the over tight valves were on the leakers.  Enough to lose 4" of vacuum
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« Reply #251 on: October 30, 2010, 07:04:06 PM »

You might give Comp a call and see what they say.  Possibly they have had other complaints or know of a problem and/or cure for the situation. The only thing I can think of for a lifter to go flat and start tapping after the engine is warm is not enough pressure, because there really isn't any other reason once the lifter is pumped up, right??

 
dana442010-10-31 00:06:25
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Steve

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« Reply #252 on: October 30, 2010, 07:23:02 PM »

You have it backwards ED.  They rattle when cold.  The tech guy at Comp asked about the springs too, but we rulled them out.  After a few seconds, they quiet uo.  Sometimes they rattle, sometimes they don't
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« Reply #253 on: October 31, 2010, 10:16:12 AM »

If they are only rattling when cold or after sitting for a while, this is kind of normal, I thought you said they were rattling after she warmed up for half an hour or so. I say this is kind of normal for an anti-pump up lifter, the ability to bleed off a little pressure when there isn't constant pressure to them. It is kind of annoying, a morning couple of seconds is a normal thing, after warming up, it isn't.  I imagine the ones that are rattling are the ones the springs are pressing against and able to overcome the oil inside to bleed down when sitting, especially when you are talking about up to 300lb pressure springs open, or even 250lb springs, which I could understand, able to overcome that pressure after a few seconds. Regular springs on non-roller cams are around 125-150lbs closed, 175-225lbs full open, so it is a little extra pressure making them just that much more pressure during an open valve while sitting (they all can't be closed at the same time after all).
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Steve

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« Reply #254 on: October 31, 2010, 06:25:02 PM »

Then why only sometimes?
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