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Author Topic: Performance/economy upgrades for Mopar Small Block  (Read 13530 times)

Steve

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Performance/economy upgrades for Mopar Small Block
« Reply #75 on: February 24, 2010, 12:03:01 PM »




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Performance/economy upgrades for Mopar Small Block
« Reply #76 on: February 24, 2010, 03:48:33 PM »

Heh
 
Seems I messed up on the head gasket thickness.  I fat fingered it.
 
The charts changed slightly
 
418 # Torque at 2500 RPM. . . that's 78 more than stock (330)
243 HP at 3500, that's 13 more than stock at 3500
and the final compression ratio ends up at 9.66:1
 
That does not take in account the heads being ported.  I don't have that information.
POLARACO2010-02-24 20:49:04
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« Reply #77 on: February 24, 2010, 09:27:15 PM »

I sent you a personal on it as asked, and as you noted, you don't have the proper flow numbers. Ported against stock comparisons all day long are great, a PT Cruiser all stock except for the ported head that goes through the Siskiyous mountains (California to mid Oregon), and Grapevine in fifth without a problem (as long as I am at 70mph or greater), and was a full fourth gear run the first time until I ported the head. I came around an onramp in third, it was busy, I merged at 65mph in third, forgot I was in third, was so smooth and quiet I didn't know I was at redline for about eight seconds merging (oops).
The combustion chamber reshaping alone is an improvement that will stretch that curve on both ends, and increase it on both ends.
As I noted in my pm to you, one big case I actually had a dyno sheet on, was a Cadillac 4.9 V8, MPFI TB type manifold, stock bottom end, and such a rare engine for mods that I ported the heads and intake just like I told you to do yours, was able to add .017 lift on the cam. We punched desktop dynos for weeks to get big numbers, and going from stock 200hp/275lb-ft torque at the flywheel, in a Fiero (one of those guys that would tell others, no dyno, no proof), Safari minivan automatic transaxle in front of it. His dyno, remember we thought we were doing good to get 300/300 with different profiles of cams and compressions, but I couldn't do anything with the head flow numbers, just valve sizes, which didn't do much at all. He dropped a dyno sheet with 349.7lb-ft torque on my desk. He said they did three pulls and it would get to 4800rpm and start missing. After the third time, it donned on the two of them that Fieros have a 112mph speed limiter in the computer and they couldn't bypass it, so they never got the 5252rpm crossover for hp, but at 2500-4800rpm torque never fell below 300lb-ft. A guy that constantly gave him ideas had been building this engine for three years, said if he hadn't seen the dyno sheet as is, never would have believed it, he hadn't ever accomplished this number, and he did things like billet 5.0 Mustang cam grinds, shaved heads, sheetmetal intakes, headers, all kinds of stuff.  Oh, and a stock 4.9 behind a tranny and at the wheels is 175hp and 225lb-ft. Tack at least 25percent on those numbers, and stretch the lines sideways half again as much.
 
Notice your VE is topping out at 80percent? Yeah, right, that number is closer to 105percent with ported heads of this nature, yours are mild, but still good.
 
dana442010-02-25 02:33:23
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Steve

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Performance/economy upgrades for Mopar Small Block
« Reply #78 on: February 25, 2010, 12:50:18 PM »

OK  so I polished the ports on the oil pump and put it back together.
 
Next will be the throttle body.
 
I'll take some pictures of it and get them up
 
Unfortunately, by black hole garage is eating things.  I can't find the distributor gear now. . .
POLARACO2010-02-25 17:52:56
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« Reply #79 on: February 26, 2010, 01:32:42 PM »


OK Ed. . .   Let's talk about this throttle Body.  Of coarse this just applies to throttle bodies. . . But you can get some significant flow.  The RED indicates what I am going to shave off the top.  Then I am going to polish the throat smoother like it is further down by the throttle plates.



Ed

This is the adapter that goes on top of the intake manifold.  The intake is a single bore and the old adapter is a single bore.  I bought this one as it is an upgrade to the old one.  Hughes tells me it delivers more low end torque.  So.  They have a single bore intake with this dual bore adapter.

You asked about the hood line. . . I am using a K & N filter adapter and moved the air filter outside the core support behind the valance.  Man-o-man, that perked the motor up when it got hot.  I was sucking all kinds of hot air into the intake.

The sand casting was pretty coarse.  I was thinking of polishing the adapter.  Do you think it will do any good?



As soon as I find Polaraco, I'll take a shot of what it looks like now.  At the moment, there is a 6' snow drift sitting on top of it.  Maybe tomorrow I'll find the car.  Seriously!  It is literly under 6 feet of snow.  The only way I could find my truck was by the CB antenna.  Momma's charger was clean as a whistle except for the nose being burried






POLARACO2010-02-26 18:36:12
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« Reply #80 on: February 26, 2010, 02:42:08 PM »

OK, let's see what we can work with here, starting with the throttle body.
 
Good one Padawan, remove that restrictive lip, it isn't needed. Let's take it a step farther. That big hole cast into the body above the AIC. Did they do that to simply save metal or are there any vacuum ports in it? In other words, fill it up with epoxy (I use JB Weld myself when doing things like this). Use cap screws to attach the TB to the base plate adapter, gets them lower and out of the flow way.  Right side center, about the middle of the leg of your red arrow, is that an air bleed or air port right in between there? Gotta save that, so just kind of leave it with a 45degree angle on either side, rounded edges of course.
Once all that is done, here is the image to think of. A flat bottomed sink. When the water flows out of it, no matter what amount of suction the water pulls the rest out of the sink, there are still dead spots on that flat surface, allowing the water temp to change, remain stagnant and not move, basically many stall areas. Now, imagine a basin with a slightly curved area downward (about as much as a plate sitting flat). No matter how slow the drain is pulling water into the drain, it always moves to the lower point with no dead spots, so, depending on how big the hat on your air cleaner CAI is, as long as the outside edge is the highest edge (like the plate or basin), and everything as it moves inward is lower, air will always be pulled, won't be stagnant, temperature will remain constant (a plus). Once it gets to the edge of the butterfly tops, then curve it into the venturii. Keep the roundness as much as what the lip (red ridge) has right now, which is enough, not too much work, but still critical. This top depth can be done one of two ways. Lathes are cool, and if you can chuck it up and do a rounded cutting head, use the inside edge of your air hood CAI thingy and use a rounded cutter (simplifies initial curve on the outer edge and from there, the drop to the butterflies only needs to be .080-.100 to the outer front/rear of the venturii, just a tenth of an inch, that's all it takes to prevent stalled air, amazing. The other way is to use epoxy to raise the outer edge to the CAI size and taper down to the venturii and break out the dremel and sand rolls, files, sand paper, and gage the whole thing. Since fuel doesn't ever touch this part these days, let's just say I trust JB Weld for things like this because fuel and oils don't affect it.
 
And continuing..... make sure the venturii are the same top and bottom, that they don't start out smaller than the butterfly, but taper down underneath, or above. I once had a 2.5 carb that was 11/16 throat on top and 13/16 bottom. It still took me over an hour of carbide burr cutting around and around to get it even without going overboard, but a drill press ould have been so much easier. Make sure the throat isn't tapered somewhere. At the base of the TB, again, match the bore of your adapter to the TB, and taper the edges equally to each other. I see this as being one of those "problem areas" I was making note of.
If you look at the top of the adapter there is a small cutout to balance the suction on top, for vacuum and such, very common, no big deal. Then you go down lower and it essentially turns into a broad fork in the road, nice curve both directions (fore and aft), nice, but then look to the sides. Ever see the water come out of a downspout (I know you have snow, but I know you have seen rain, haha)..... There is too large an area, kind of like that scene in Time Bandits where they fall out of the sky and just.....fall. Intakes do better performance when there is control of the flow, not giant areas the size of a softball to go into, then dole out where it wants to go when the suction pulls it, it likes to be able to use the walls of the manifold to direct it through its path (why I like my texture of the carbide burr cutters, it doesn't allow anything to touch the walls (like the fear of entering the atmosphere, it automatically skips off because of the tiny cups they cut). Right now we need to figure out this dead spot (as noted at the Hughes site, "and when you hit 3500rpm the difference between stock and performance take separate roads", which is the point of rpm on a stock cam that the suction and velocity increases to the point to overcome the giant dead spot right underneath the throttle body, that point where if it were smoke filling the room (area under the throttle body), the exhaust fans (pistons sucking past the intake valves and increased vacuum) pull it directly into the airducts and leaves the center clear of smoke (velocity overcomes volume).  We will have to work on this, but for now, let me see the underside of the TB and the adapter itself.
 
And now the fun begins!
 
Ed 
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Steve

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« Reply #81 on: February 26, 2010, 04:05:42 PM »

KISS
 
Whadhesay?
 
The TB is straight through.  It's a 50 MM bore.  A 52MM Bore flows at 750, with the tops all polished.  I was planning on using socket head cap screws.  Tall, but much smaller diameter.  Let's face it, anything will be disrupting the flow, but at least the sockets heads are round.  (Pretty clever Huh? )
 
I'll go take the bottoms for you. . .  I gotta tell you, your novel lost me this time. . . .  Break it up a bit or somthing. . . .   Maybe I'm just tired.
I was thinking of tapering down the top edge and rounding, of coarse, of the TB into the throats.
 
Moving on to the adaptor, I was planning on smoothing the inside of the flow chamber.  I know this is much coarser than the intake is itself.  The intake had at least a fine sand casting.  The rest of what you said, I need to get my Pipe and slippers so I can read it again.  
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« Reply #82 on: February 26, 2010, 04:58:59 PM »



I wanted to smooth out the throat on this (below)











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« Reply #83 on: February 26, 2010, 06:36:36 PM »

OK, LMAO, I will break it down into baby steps for you. Thanks for the bottom pictures.
 
Cap bolts, great, you got that one right and for the right reason. I'll do picture by picture.

 
Slap your gasket on here and see how much slelf is on each end and along the side. compare it to the manifold also, because this is fun. You want a smooth transition from side of this to side of manifold and the center divider, but you aslo want to have a smooth transition from the ends and same with the sides. You have lots of aluminum, might have some time to improve the transitions thus improve flow and prevent eddies at the mating surfaces. In looking at the inside of the manifold, I am thinking about, will tell you about it tomorrow, want to limit the novels.
 


Is the TB gasket here kind of heart shaped? The part on the top should have a gasket to be across the vacuum pickups on top, then stop at the middle where the butterfly shaft is, right? Then cut out to go around the outside of the AIC on the bottom, no gasket across that open area, right? This way if it is, gives good vacuum signal on the top of the picture connections, and plenty of area for the air idle controller not to be impeded. Can't do anything with it for improvements, just make sure the adapter block underneath matches the venturii botoms as close as possible, kind of like the intake to head ported portions. The pictures next to each other look pretty good, the adapter seems to mimic pretty good, just get rid of the extra gasket where not needed around the AIC cutout, you have metal there already, but the vacuum fitting side needs that gasket as noted above.
 


 
This is the worst picture so far, pretty good of you (just kidding). OK, this is the AIC or IAC, idle air controller or air idle controller, whatever. Since it is just a tiny air bleed and large computer controlled sensor, reduce the size of this massive hole as much as possible. I have taken these and placed a slurpie straw tube and  JB Welded around them to reduce the turbulence area, pull the straw out when dry and you have a controlled air bleed area for idle and no issues with reduced volume needed. It's a big hole, try to reduce it, lots of turbulence.
 
 So overall the connection between the TB and adapter looks pretty good, simple touchup stuff other than the top of the TB flow.
 
I will wait for the adapter to manifold, that is going to be a fun one. I am thinking, as usual, a regular port matching of the sides, sure, but gotta see that inside of the intake manifold, whether split in half or one big open area.
 

 
You can breathe, not too much work overall.
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« Reply #84 on: February 26, 2010, 08:21:57 PM »

Yeah. . .I'm just going to do the top, polish it and polish the top 1/2 of the bore.  Well maybe.  It's pretty smooth now.  I

'll have to think about that IAC.  The nozzle is close to 3/8" diameter.  I think I am just going to dam it on either side and then fill behind the dam.  Leave about a 1/2" slot to the top. 

I have to wonder why they left so much room though.  Maybe the IAC needs allot of air?  I'm going to look and see what they did with the billet units.

The bottom I'll use a fine grinding wheel and mate it to the gasket, like the heads.

If you look at that bore in the adapter, it's pretty rough.  Keep that in mind.

That is a pretty cool intake.  Ya think?

Leaburn. . .you getting all this?


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« Reply #85 on: February 27, 2010, 12:36:43 PM »

OK, however large that AIC valve opening is, make it so there is room for it to breathe without making it whistle when it operates, but yeah, close it down a bit, I think a lot of it is material savings, like underneath.
 
Remember my opinion of sanding stones, which I think of them as chatter garbage collectors, good for outside and looks, not nice for flow characteristics of surfaces. The rough sand casting is just about as bad, think about how things flow across surfaces. Air is simply water, just lighter, so they pretty much act the same way, water being a little slower, but you can see how it affects going over items. Just like a mismatch of ports, it is like water going down a sidewalk and hitting a rise and fall in an otherwise smooth surface, water in a bowl keeps moving, against the outside of a cup flows around, and a flat surface splashes, a curve controls direction better than a simple flat angle. Seams need to fit and all that to reduce a wrinkle in flow across, but as you notice, there then comes a speed of the flow that overcomes and simply jumps a seam or other imperfection (that 3500rpm jump that keeps popping up, stock does the same thing usually), but to get it as equal as possible so you don't have those jumps, means the flow is better. I am thinking a small almost half circle/half cylinder type break at the bottom of the manifold will be best, so let me draw something and try to attach it to give an idea what I am talking about. It can't block flow, it can't cut flow in half, but basically remove the volume of dead flow before the velocity itself picks up is what we want. I'll get something to you sometime today, kind of taking care of the MINI Cooper maintenance check (it's the sixth time I have driven the car since owning it, the dealership is about 35miles away, figured the wife could use some fluid changing since I still don't have my garage to do anything, I refuse to do some things on the road parking area).
Ed
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« Reply #86 on: February 27, 2010, 02:42:03 PM »



OK  You happy now? 

I have to start polishing this as soon as I cut off the last of the lip.  I need to keep those blocks on the outer edges for the filter bonnet.  But I am going to reduce them in size.


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« Reply #87 on: February 27, 2010, 05:59:53 PM »

[/QUOTE]

Yep, yep, yep, all happy about it so far. Nice rounding of the edges, and OK, better picture angle, and the AIC thing, make it a pentagram as wide as the rounded part at the bottom and straight up the sides of the rounded sensor. Should keep it from making noise or whistling, and on top of it, the sensor is electronically controlled through the rpm, so if it drops, air increases, if it goes too high, it shuts down, also controls the idle increase for AC on mode, so that should be large enough, helps give you more area to round once it is filled in a bit.
 
Been thinking about the shape most appropriate for the splitter in the intake, and I think something like the shape of a cam lobe would be best, kind of an egg pointed top, about an inch and a half tall, about two inches wide at the bottom, then from the half inch from the bottom (measuring bottom to top) should be one inch wide, and from this point, tapered half inch rounded outward to the two inch wide base (kind of looking like a cam lobe profile wave picture). Take one wave from the bottom to the top and back down to the bottom, and if this makes sense, the line cutting this picture in half, take the two bottom outer side line ends and drag themoutward to the floor of the intake. (in essence, below the 3000rpm range, this is what the dead area under the TB and at the base of the intake manifold pretty much looks like with smoke). EDIT: My sine wave picture didn't stick.

 
This would remove the dead base spot without actually spitting the front and rear pairs of cylinder ports, but put something in this low pressure spot (ummmm, center of the storm dead area), but under no circumstances restrict flow. One and a half inches would be the perfect height, and the two inch width wouldn't force any restriction at high rpm.  If you don't want to afix them permanently, that's OK, and since it is air gap, put one or two small drill/tapped screw holes in it, you could lock it in bottom up (as in drill/tap this shape, stick a stud in it and nylock it from the bottom, would give you a major test of before and after testing, cool, huh?). Calculating port size, height, etc., I think this is the right balance between bottom end assistance and higher rpm (5000+) and still not restricting flow. I will try to make one and take a picture, I am being very technically unfriendly in this, just more of my "staying off the grid" mentality. I'll make a clay model of one and get a picture of it. I can do that, give me a day or two on that though (visitors over the weekend).
dana442010-02-27 23:01:38
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Steve

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« Reply #88 on: February 27, 2010, 06:45:45 PM »

I get my Pipe and read that in a minute.  But first

This is what I need to make



This is what I have so far



I used some PC 7, not as viscus as JB unfortunately.  I am hoping it will flow in time.  I took a piece of blister pack from a tool package and made a dam with it.  Vasolined the crap out of it so it wouldn't stick.  Tomorrow I'll put another layer on.  I'll probably have to do some clean up inside.  The hole will be about a 9/16 " which is slightly larger than the IAC opening.  I'll shape it at the top to prevent whistling.

I am going to look at the holes where the bolts go in and see if I can drill some out to recess the socket head cap screws.  My hardware guy is closed tomorrow, so I'll have to get the bolts Monday.  I'll see if they have some SAE washers which would be about 7/16 Diameter.  I can drill up to 1" holes, and from there it's greenlees


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« Reply #89 on: February 27, 2010, 06:49:58 PM »



Quote from: dana44
Quote from: POLARACO


Yep, yep, yep, all happy about it so far. Nice rounding of the edges, and OK, better picture angle, and the AIC thing, make it a pentagram as wide as the rounded part at the bottom and straight up the sides of the rounded sensor. Should keep it from making noise or whistling, and on top of it, the sensor is electronically controlled through the rpm, so if it drops, air increases, if it goes too high, it shuts down, also controls the idle increase for AC on mode, so that should be large enough, helps give you more area to round once it is filled in a bit.
 
Been thinking about the shape most appropriate for the splitter in the intake, and I think something like the shape of a cam lobe would be best, kind of an egg pointed top, about an inch and a half tall, about two inches wide at the bottom, then from the half inch from the bottom (measuring bottom to top) should be one inch wide, and from this point, tapered half inch rounded outward to the two inch wide base (kind of looking like a cam lobe profile wave picture). Take one wave from the bottom to the top and back down to the bottom, and if this makes sense, the line cutting this picture in half, take the two bottom outer side line ends and drag themoutward to the floor of the intake. (in essence, below the 3000rpm range, this is what the dead area under the TB and at the base of the intake manifold pretty much looks like with smoke). EDIT: My sine wave picture didn't stick.

 
This would remove the dead base spot without actually spitting the front and rear pairs of cylinder ports, but put something in this low pressure spot (ummmm, center of the storm dead area), but under no circumstances restrict flow. One and a half inches would be the perfect height, and the two inch width wouldn't force any restriction at high rpm.  If you don't want to afix them permanently, that's OK, and since it is air gap, put one or two small drill/tapped screw holes in it, you could lock it in bottom up (as in drill/tap this shape, stick a stud in it and nylock it from the bottom, would give you a major test of before and after testing, cool, huh?). Calculating port size, height, etc., I think this is the right balance between bottom end assistance and higher rpm (5000+) and still not restricting flow. I will try to make one and take a picture, I am being very technically unfriendly in this, just more of my "staying off the grid" mentality. I'll make a clay model of one and get a picture of it. I can do that, give me a day or two on that though (visitors over the weekend).

Ed you totally lost me.  Get out the crayons and show me.

By the way. . .I used that to touch up my little FUBARS too.  The throats are polished on top now, but I stopped because of all the grinding I will be doing around the top to get it smooth.  I plan on beveling the tops more if there is enough meat in the body.  Hell it will flow better just the way it is!
POLARACO2010-02-27 23:58:37
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