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Author Topic: Intake stuck  (Read 928 times)

attkrlufy

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Intake stuck
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2009, 07:02:45 AM »


Quote from: HemiFury
Since you can post pics okay,  if you get into the Timing set everybody here could keep you straight on the install with them.
Well, maybe I'll give it a shot.  I feel like I gotta get some courage, though.  Better head to the liquor cabinet for some "courage"....

Quote from: HemiFury
Only real special tool is the Damper puller,   you could rent it since it's common or go to Sears & buy one.    You can also use them to pull a steering wheel.
Well, I have used a tool like that to pull my steering wheel before - so that's nothing new. 

What about the timing chain cover external oil seal?  I assume that would need to be replaced.  My FSM says there is a special tool needed to put a new seal back on.  Is that one I can "rent" from Autozone, too?

Plus, the FSM says there's a special tool (a different one from the puller) needed to put the vibration damper back on.  Again, is this an easy tool to rent?  It doesn't do me any good to get the damper off if I can't put it back on.

Quote from: HemiFury
You can do it!
We'll see....since when did you become a character from "The Waterboy," anyway? 

Quote from: HemiFury
Forget the heads,  more work than you probably want!   If it's not smoking or using excessive oil then it's okay for now.
I think that's exactly what I'm going to do - leave them alone.  I've got enough on my plate, already.


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1979 New Yorker - 360 4v, 2.71:1 rear, factory moonroof, factory road wheels


Snotty

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Intake stuck
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2009, 07:37:33 AM »

All things are a matter of taste - I've always liked the Mopar blue.
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It's green here in Chico!!

Butch Houghton

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Intake stuck
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2009, 05:35:11 AM »

Damper puller.....

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/search_10153_12605?keyword=damper+puller&x=0&y=0

Cheap enough,  especially if you're gonna work on cars.

You don't need a special tool to install,   the Damper is a slight interference fit ( like .001 ) & you can tap them on with a hammer.  Just make sure to hit only the center where the main bolt/washer is.   NOT the outer ring.   Tap it just far enough to get the center bolt to engage & then use the bolt to pull it on down.   Takes about 125 LB/FT so a 1/2 is needed for sure.

The front seal can be driven out with a Screwdriver & hammer,  Just lay in on the bench & it'll come out.  Then tap the new one back in GENTLY into the cover.     When you go to put the seal in put a light coat of RTV on the outside metal part that rides on the cover.   Pay attention to which way it fits in too.    Also put some oil on the lip of the seal.

Here's a trick,    put the front cover on & don't tighten it completely yet,   slide the damper on ( oil the surface that rides on the seal ) & pull the damper up & then tighten the timing cover all the way.   What this does is make sure the damper is centered in the seal.   There's enough slop in the mounting  bolts to get the cover just slightly off & could put pressure on one side of the seal.   Most likely not a real big deal but it's one of those things that falls into " why not"  be safe.

The front seal can be a bear to get started sometimes since it's a tight fit,   just don't hit it too hard & bend it.   You tap on the outer metal edge & it will be hard to keep centered but take your time & it'll eventually start.   Make sure you drive it till it hits bottom in the timiing cover. If nothing else lay a piece of 2X4 over it & hammer on that,  it'll spread the load around the outside of the seal.

Butch




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attkrlufy

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Intake stuck
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2009, 08:08:28 AM »


Okay Butch, I'm gonna do it - I'm going to change the timing set, too.  But I'm gonna ask about a million questions before I'm done and personally drive you bonkers as part of the process.  Get your white flag ready. 

Do I really need to change the WHOLE chain/sprocket assembly?  Isn't the issue with just the factory nylon chain?  Couldn't I replace only that, instead?

I feel like if I replace the cam and crank sprockets, too, I'm going to open up a whole can of worms.  The FSM tells me there's, like, five parts I have to remove as part of the cam sprocket assembly (the thrust plate being one of them) and that the old thrust plate "should be checked for less than 0.010 inch end play.  If not within these limits, install new thrust plate."

I can hear the avalanche starting..... How would I even go about checking to see that something is moving less than 1/100th of an inch? Do I use a microscope?

So apparently I should replace the oil seal.....What about the vibration damper?  I read they're fluid filled and, over time, need to be replaced.  Would this be a good time to replace the damper, too?

Quote from: HemiFury
  Tap it just far enough to get the center bolt to engage & then use the bolt to pull it on down.
I'm not exactly sure what that means....I guess I'll figure it out when I get there.  I have a 1/2" torque wrench that goes to 140 ft/lbs, so at least I'm set with that.
 
Quote from: HemiFury
When you go to put the seal in put a light coat of RTV on the outside metal part that rides on the cover.   Pay attention to which way it fits in too.    Also put some oil on the lip of the seal.
"Outside metal part"?  You mean the part of the oil seal that contacts the the bottom of the "well" that the oil seal rests in (on the timing chain cover)?  And when you say "lip" you mean the side of the seal - the thinnest part of the seal, right?

Quote from: HemiFury
Here's a trick, put the front cover on & don't tighten it completely yet,   slide the damper on ( oil the surface that rides on the seal ) & pull the damper up & then tighten the timing cover all the way.   What this does is make sure the damper is centered in the seal.
Oh...you mean the weight of the damper is enough to pull down on the seal to misalign the match between the two parts even when the seal's in and the cover is secured to the engine?
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1979 New Yorker - 360 4v, 2.71:1 rear, factory moonroof, factory road wheels


Butch Houghton

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Intake stuck
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2009, 07:55:43 AM »

Yep,  whole chain & gears....that's what a timing set comes with

The chain isn't Nylon,  the camshaft gear is.   That's what fails & thee combination of a loose chain means it all slips timing.   Best to replace with new gears & a chain to match.

Stop reading the FSM!  LOL  It's scaring ya!    There's no reason to pull the camshaft thrust plate.   That's only it you're gonna change the camshaft.    Leave it alone.  Just read the part about changing the Chain itself & lining it up with the dots.

The cam gear is held on with 1 bolt & washer & the fuel pump eccentric is behind the washer.  The whole mess sits on a keyway so the gear & eccentric  only goes on 1 way.    You'll see it when you get it off.


Since the damper is a slight interference fit it won't slide on,  it has to be driven on.    Doesn't take that much force,  just tap with a hammer on the center area of the damper where the center bolt contacts until it's far enough for the center bolt/washer to thread in & then use the bolt to pull it down the rest of the way.   You'll see the very center of the damper has a raised ridge that the washer rides on  tap on it there working in a circle to walk the damper on.    And no there's no fluid in the dampers.    If you look there's the center section & then a small/thin section of rubber  & the outer section all pressed together.  That little ring of ruber is called the inertia ring,  they can fail over time but if it looks okay then it's fine.    It's proably got paint on it but if you clean it you'll see the thin bit of rubber.

when you get it off show us a pic ,  probably okay.

Yeah, the outer metal ring of the oil seal is where you tap on it to drive it in the timing cover,   The inner "lip"  would be the rubber seal itself that rides on the damper to seal.  

It's  not the wieght of the damper,  the damper centers on the crankshaft but the timing cover has just a bit of slop in the bolts so that the seal might not be centered on the damper.
Like I said that's ususally not a big deal & if it sounds too confusing then just bolt the timing cover up & the stick the damper on.     I've never had an issue either way & it's just one of those little thing I do to be even safer.  

I forgot to mention,  the crank gear just slides off but it might be stuck with varnish & you take 2 screwdrivers & pry it off.   The oil slinger it in front of the gear too,  just slides off.   Take note of how the slinger  faces,  the cupped side faces the timing cover.

The smart thing to do first is to park the engine on #1 Top-Dead-Center ( TDC ) ......
Is the distributor still in?   I forget from the pics.    If it is just pull the cap & turn the motor over by hand till the rotor points to the front of the car & line up the timing mark on the damper with the 0 on the timing cover.   That should be #1 TDC,   if you line up the marks & the rotor points to the rear of the car then it's on #6 TDC,  180 degrees out.

If you have it out already & remember which way the rotor was facing just put it back the way it cam out & do the above.   Doesn't have to be bolted in for this.

Another smart thing would be to have all the plugs out,  much easier to turn it over.

Next question!    

Here's a bit of theory for ya,   how many degrees of rotation for a 4-cycle engine....720!
2 complete revolutionsof the crank for each cycle.    That's why you can have the timing marks line up on zero twice & only 1 way is correct.    The Camshaft & distributor run at 1/2 crank speed so that's how it's all timed for the complete cycle.    

Butch


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68 Dart GT - 394 Stroker/6 Pack
70 Fury Gran Coupe - 472 Hemi
70 Sport Fury - 383 Magnum FK5
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