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Author Topic: 318 w/ antifreeze in the oil  (Read 4353 times)

Robert Rottman

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318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
« on: March 12, 2009, 04:51:39 PM »

I took my 69 Fury out tonight and about 5 miles down the road I looked down at the temp. gauge and it was all the way up to H! I immediately pulled the car over and shut her down. After letting her cool down about 15 minutes, I slowly unscrewed the radiator cap...no hissing, no steam no nothing...I couldn't understand where the antifreeze went?...I've seen nothing on the garage floor...so I checked the oil....there's where it went. The oil was quite a ways up on the dipstick and milky looking. Obviosly the antifreeze is getting into the crankcase. After I drain the oil, should I check the torque on the head bolts and intake manifold bolts or is that a lost cause by now? How do I know where the internal leak is? Some history on the car/motor. It's a 318 with 85,000 miles...The motor was removed, valve covers, heads, intake, oil pan, water pump, timing cover were all removed, cleaned, repainted and reassembled with new seals /gaskets in 2005. She's run very well ever since though.....I've heard antifreeze in the crankcase rusts/ruins bearings....Should the motor be rebuilt now? Any ideas, please reply. Thanks, Bob 
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Ken

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318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2009, 05:06:09 PM »

The  engine should be yanked out and torn down if you can afford it, 'cause there bearings ARE toast. That's my thought.  Sorry to hear the bad news.

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Steve

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318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2009, 05:11:28 PM »

Oh Mannn  Bill
 
OK  My money is on a head gasket.  The heads were off the car.  It's possible it was either a bad gasket or was not torqued properly in the first place.  Retorquing isn't going to do amything for you now.
 
You may have  done some damage to the bearings, so it's premature to call that.  I would pull the heads off and look for the leak in the gaskets.  Change the oil twice afterwards after about 100 miles.  That will suck out all the condensation.  In the mean time, take the filler cap off and pull the PVC.  Put a small heater under the engine to heat it up and get the water out as much as you can.  You need to drain the crankcase and leave the plug out as well.
 
that vintage 318 is not known for cracking
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Ken

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318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2009, 05:25:16 PM »

Steve, he MIGHT get lucky, but I doubt it. The coolant getting into the oil pan means the oil was contaminated, and it changed the lubricant so that it was no longer able to be the protective layer between the crank and the bearings.

By the time the temp gauge shot up, the bearings were already hit by the coolant, and now they are contaminated.

Granted, I ain't no en-jin-eer, but I have been through auto tech, and I am somewhat familiar with engines.  I wouldn't screw around with draining an engine, use a heater to try and make coolant evaporate, and hope that 2 oil changes would make things OK.  I mean, what if the pump sucked some of that stuff and sent it to the valvetrain?  And what acids were created when the hot coolant mixed with the hot oil?

Just my 2 cents.


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Stan Paralikis

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318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2009, 05:44:01 PM »

Ain't no point discussing anything until the heads are pulled....

Leaburn Patey

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318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2009, 05:51:53 PM »

Ditto on the head gasket.
Permanent engine damage? 318?
Probably not without seeing it for myself.
C'mon we are not dealing with late model high tolerance soft multi-type alloy junk here.
I had seen worse things happen to 318's personally and through my shop and all survived the torture.
M body 318's were famous for head gaskets or cracked heads.None in our shop had to be rebuilt or replaced.
318's are more forgiving.
My Dad had a 72 D200 we used for firewood.After years of hard hauling and occasional overheat, the crank would move a total of 1/4" side to side.
It still ran and hauled a cord and a half of wood.True story. 
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Steve

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318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2009, 07:06:33 PM »

[/QUOTE]
 
He didn't drive it that far. . so my guess is it'll be OK. . .Not perfect, but OK.  It depends on what he wants to do.  I went a long way on a blown head gasket and rant he car another 4 years after that.
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Stitcherbob

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318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2009, 07:54:34 PM »

My 318 in the Cordoba seized solid with a bang due to a clogged oil pickup, so that's got to come out....oil pan off, oil pump cleaned out, dump kerosene down through the valve covers to wash everything down. Once everything is clean, you can pull a couple of bearing caps and see what's what.
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Robert Rottman

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318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2009, 02:15:49 AM »

Hey guys,
 
I was thinking....before I remove each head I should check and see if each bolt is torqued to the proper spec....I should have checked the torque on each bolt myself after 100 miles or so back in 2006 after this engine was put back together!  Right?
 
Now...if I pull the heads and find no leak...then the only other place to look is the intake manifold. There's absolutely no other possible source for a leak. Is this correct?
 
Thank you all for your fast attention and advice. I'm really bummed about this. Bad car to happen to...this one is mint...engine compartment clean enough to eat off of... I'm thinking too...with my bad back...I'll have to take this somewhere to get it fixed especially if it's real bad....I can just imagine the carelessness...The leaning over the fenders..scratches...dings...Oh I can't take it  Must think of something else
 
furyfever2009-03-13 06:43:54
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Stan Paralikis

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318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2009, 03:58:26 AM »


Quote from: furyfever
Must think of something else....
Sell it to me for 1000 bucks... 

Load'er up, Steve.

Robert Rottman

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318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2009, 04:03:01 AM »

[/QUOTE]
 
furyfever2009-03-13 09:34:34
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Stitcherbob

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318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2009, 08:14:25 AM »

"Testing an automobile engine for a blown head gasket is pretty
straightforward.  The first check is to see if there are combustion gasses
getting into the cooling system.  Take a sample of the coolant and go to the
local radiator shop and request that they analyze the coolant for the presence
of hydrocarbons.  If they are present then it is most likely that you have a
blown head gasket.
Another check is to look at the oil of a warmed up engine.  The
antifreeze in the oil will whip it up into a frothy brown mixture that looks
like a milk shake.  If it looks like chocolate mousse then you probably have a
blown head gasket.
Another check is to fill the cooling system to the brim and remove
the radiator cap.  Do this when the engine is cool.  Start the engine and race
it.  If there is a compression leak and the gasses are going into the cooling
jacket then the gasses will displace the coolant.  Since the cap is off the
coolant will be pushed out of the radiator.  You probably have a blown head
gasket.
OK, so we are pretty sure there is a blown head gasket and if we
have a straight cylinder engine then there is only one head to remove, but what
if it is a V-8 or V-6?  How can you isolate the cylinder that is leaking?
Remove all the spark plugs.  Get a cooling system pressure tester and pressurize
the cooling system to specification, normally about 20 PSI.  Leave the system
pressurized for a few hours.  Now lay down some clean paper towel along the
cylinder heads where the spark plugs were.  Crank the engine over for a few
seconds.  Since the spark plugs are not in place any antifreeze that leaked into
the cylinder will be blown out onto the clean paper towel.  Examine the paper
towel for the telltale signs of antifreeze and you will be able to tell which is
the guilty cylinder.
You can also look at the condition of the spark plugs.  Any spark
plug that looks different from the rest should be suspect.  Of course if you can
see antifreeze on a plug then you know that is the bad guy.  If the plug looks
cleaner than the rest or has a white powder on it then suspect that one.
Most blown head gaskets will require a new gasket be installed.
There are very few which will be fixed by addition of a cooling system sealer -
you can try it, but be prepared to spring for the big bucks and have the gasket
replaced."

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Robert Rottman

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318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2009, 10:33:54 AM »

Thanks Stitch....That will help me diagnose where the leak is. Maybe I'll get to check the plugs this weekend too. I don't have a pressure tester but maybe there will be a plug that "stands out". I hope to drain out all the oil/antifreeze "milkshake" too. I didn't say this earlier but the milkshake level on the dipstick was disturbingly high up! Where the normal full oil level is about 1" from the bottom....the milkshake level was about 4-5" up! Many I've talked to here at work today say "rebuild it" You'll only have a worse problem down the road..like a spun bearing which will be way more problems than I even have now....so...I just don't know. I'm just a big bummer today.
 
Thanks for the reply...I appreciate it.
 
Bob 
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firedome

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318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2009, 12:05:14 PM »

I'd say head gasket too, BUT... shouldnt he have seen major white smoke
out the tailpipe, burning coolant in the combustion chamber? Happened
to me once on a '65 Olds 350 and it made enough white smoke to
camouflage a battleship squadron... and that was with a blown gasket on
just one of the heads... eh?

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firedome

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318 w/ antifreeze in the oil
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2009, 12:06:44 PM »

hmmm.... maybe "tonight" is a clue to why any smoke may not have been seen...

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