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Author Topic: Am I Crazy? How can this be?  (Read 3803 times)

Steve

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Am I Crazy? How can this be?
« on: February 21, 2009, 05:56:21 AM »

Hi guys and gals!

I was under the '68 Sport Fury last night and was looking for the engine ID numbers on my 440HP. I scraped away the grunge and found the stamping on the bottom side of the pan rail below the starter. To my Shock/Amazement/Horror, the engine displacement was stamped 383!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How can this be? The 383 is a B block (except for 1958-1960 there was a Chrysler 383 RB). My engine is clearly a RB, as the engine pad is in the RB-only location. I can not see the casting number to identify it, but every single engine number I can see (intake, exhaust, carb, dist., etc.) comes back as the proper number for my 440HP.

I know anything is possible, but has anyone ever heard of something like this?

I'm really freaked out right now and could use some relief;-)


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Uncle Hulka

1967 Oldsmobile 4-4-2
1968 Plymouth Sport Fury Conv w/Factory 440HP
1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass S
1969 Oldsmobile Delta 88 w/Original B07 Police Package
1970 Chevelle 396

Stitcherbob

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« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2009, 06:12:00 AM »

Aren't those the VIN #'s down there? Also could be a mis-stamp.....

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Steve

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« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2009, 06:28:48 AM »

Hey Stitcherbob, thanks for replying.

It looks like there are a lot of numbers that go something like this:

The engine plant code (I think it was PT)
The engine displacement (says 383, MUST be 440)
The 4-digit Julian date the engine was assembled
The number this engine was built in the days production run (if it said 0037, it was the 37th engine built that day).

Does this help?

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Uncle Hulka

1967 Oldsmobile 4-4-2
1968 Plymouth Sport Fury Conv w/Factory 440HP
1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass S
1969 Oldsmobile Delta 88 w/Original B07 Police Package
1970 Chevelle 396

Butch Houghton

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« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2009, 07:13:01 AM »

VIN  wasn't down on the pan rail in 68,   that started in 69.    The only place it should be for a 68 ( and that was usually later in the year run)  is on top of the bellhousing adjacent to the block & top back of the block right next to it.

Might just be a plant sequence number down there,  not the same as a VIN.

Butch


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68 Dart GT - 394 Stroker/6 Pack
70 Fury Gran Coupe - 472 Hemi
70 Sport Fury - 383 Magnum FK5

Stitcherbob

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« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2009, 08:31:58 AM »


Butch is right, it is a plant identification-serial number assigned to the engine




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Stan Paralikis

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« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2009, 09:44:57 AM »



I qoute from The America V8 Engine Data Book:

From 1968 [/b][/u] to 1971, a different ID code system was use, and, the ID code was relocated to the left side of the block, near the oil pan flange.

A typical ID code might read as follows:
PT[color="#ffff00"]38325920022.[/b][/color]
The first two letters indicate the engine plant where the engine was assembled.  They are as follows:
PT: Trenton Plant, which built 361-, 383-, 412-, 426-, and 440 cid engines.
PM, GM, HM: Mound Road Plant, which built318-, 340-, and 360 cid engines.
MV, MN: Marysville Plant, which built the 426 Hemi.

The next three digits indicate engine displacement, which is in this example 383 cid. 

This is followed by a four digit code that indicates the build date.  This example,2592, stands for Sept. 1, 1969 and can be found in the 10,000-day calendar in the Chrysler service books.  The date can usually be found next to or near the ID code, stamped in the conventional manner, 09-01-69 in this example.

The last four numbersare the daily sequence number, which indicates the chronological order of each engine built that day.  In this example, the 22nd unit built that day.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1968 saw the addition of a new 383 cid B engine
This version, which was rated 335 hp, was for use on the Road Runner and Super Bee. The engine used the cylinder heads that were used on the 1968 HP 440 cid engine
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sounds to me like the 383/335 HP. from the Coyote bait.


Commando12009-02-21 15:00:10

Arlen Vander Hoff

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« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2009, 02:09:57 PM »

Call me crazy but aren't a 383 and a 440 the same block? If not somebody needs to straighten me out on this.

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Steve

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« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2009, 03:13:56 PM »

My research clearly indicates the the 383 was a 'B' block and the 440 was a 'RB' block. The B block has an identification pad below the passenger-side head. The RB block has an identification pad on the top, driver-side area of the block. That is where the identification pad for my engine is located and is stamped with the 1968 date and "440 HP".

So the question is:
How can this be a 383 B block when it has the RB-only identification pad location?

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Uncle Hulka

1967 Oldsmobile 4-4-2
1968 Plymouth Sport Fury Conv w/Factory 440HP
1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass S
1969 Oldsmobile Delta 88 w/Original B07 Police Package
1970 Chevelle 396

Stitcherbob

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« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2009, 03:36:13 PM »


because the oil pan rail was "hand stamped", it introduces a possibility of mistakes....maybe  it was a Friday evening/Monday morning car!stitcherbob2009-02-21 20:37:52
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Steve

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« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2009, 03:45:52 PM »

That's what I thought. I believe it's just a mis-stamped block. I just need to know that my reasoning was correct. Up until today, like ardog, I thought the 383 and the 440 were the same engine block. I can't tell you what a relief it was to learn there is a definite difference between blocks.

Will anyone else back up my belief? I just need to be sure.

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Uncle Hulka

1967 Oldsmobile 4-4-2
1968 Plymouth Sport Fury Conv w/Factory 440HP
1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass S
1969 Oldsmobile Delta 88 w/Original B07 Police Package
1970 Chevelle 396

Steve

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« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2009, 03:59:52 PM »

Oh, I forgot to mention there is one more piece of evidence to support my position; the intake manifold!

The RB intake is wider than the B intake because it is a "Raised Block" and the heads are farther apart. My intake has casting number 2806178. according to Galen's book, this number was used for three years. I quote:

2806178   1967   B-body   440   1-4 barrel   HP
2806178   1968   B- & C-body   440   1-4 barrel   All
2806178   1969   A-, B- & C-body   440   1-4 barrel

My engine  identification pad is stamped D440 HP and it's in a Sport Fury.

No conflicting information here (Thank God)!




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Uncle Hulka

1967 Oldsmobile 4-4-2
1968 Plymouth Sport Fury Conv w/Factory 440HP
1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass S
1969 Oldsmobile Delta 88 w/Original B07 Police Package
1970 Chevelle 396

Stan Paralikis

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« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2009, 04:18:31 PM »

Does the number 2536430 appear anyhere on the block?

Stan Paralikis

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« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2009, 04:23:08 PM »


Quote from: ardog
Call me crazy but aren't a 383 and a 440 the same block? If not somebody needs to straighten me out on this.
You're crazy.

Actually the RB (raised block) has a 3/4" higher deck height.  This was to allow a longer stroke.





Steve

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« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2009, 04:23:50 PM »

I couldn't see the casting number.

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Uncle Hulka

1967 Oldsmobile 4-4-2
1968 Plymouth Sport Fury Conv w/Factory 440HP
1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass S
1969 Oldsmobile Delta 88 w/Original B07 Police Package
1970 Chevelle 396

Ken

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« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2009, 04:38:07 PM »



Call me crazy but aren't a 383 and a 440 the same block? If not somebody needs to straighten me out on this.
[/QUOTE]

OK, so you're crazy   :P

What Stan sez, basically.

The 361-383 "B" engine is shorter than the 413-440 "RB" from the crank centerline to the cylinder head surface, hence the "RB" or "Raised B" designation for the latter.  Got it?
Moesy2009-02-21 21:39:05
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'67 300 2 door "Fast top" with factory A/C, 1973 disc power brakes,Firm Feel Stage 1 power steering, Auto-pilot, up for sale!
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