MoparFins

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

We changed servers, which is good, and lost all passwords, which is bad. See above.

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5   Go Down

Author Topic: Auto Company Bailout  (Read 1553 times)

Johnny D.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Posts: 856
    • View Profile
Auto Company Bailout
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2008, 07:05:24 PM »



i dont think following Packards business plan is all that great... that means you'll sacrifice your brand image, merge with a loosing company, get sucked dry by it, and go out of business leaving the largest unused factory in the world..

Also i already think they are doing that series thing because, now most cars are coming out as packages or specialty... the new challenger for example. does anyone think it really will have legs, as far as new model years with updates go... probably will go the way of the t-bird... you style a car one way, sell it to death, then kill it. posibly reinventing it in a few years if its viable... like the mustang... or maybe you just make such a niche vechile like the crown vic/town car. that your tooling is all paid for and every fleet sale is a gain. the old way of new models in september died back in the 80's as far as im concerned....

The college student in me who has written enough papers to detect a slider, is a bit cautious of getting any pro UAW information from the UAW website, and an author who provides no hard sources... "i talked to someone" doesnt cut the mustard. Sorry. It is a good read, but anyone could write something similar for an anti union site that would sound as credible, with no actual source notes as well...

and one more thing...what car sells for 20k? an Aveo? anything decent's
in the mid to upper 30's especially with the packages and crap they
made neccessary today... ipod this and navigation that...

Math
was never my strong point... but isnt 7 percent on 20,000 is 1400
dollars.... and on a 35 thousand dollar car is 2,450 dollars.... on a
60,000 dollar escalade, thats 4200 bucks...  for the labor, right?

im not saying people dont need jobs, or shouldnt be payed fairly for what they do... a workers worth their wages right... but somethings gotta give.





MobStaffCar722008-12-01 00:37:56
Logged

"Rock and Roll's been going downhill ever since Buddy Holly died."- John Milner

Carl

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Posts: 25
    • View Profile
Auto Company Bailout
« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2008, 08:05:53 PM »

My guess is reading wasn't your strong point either
Quote
Wages and benefits are 7% of the total car costs. Japanese are 5% so its only 2% of the TOTAL car cost difference. On a 20K car that is $400,
And on your 30K car that would be $600
Logged

1973 Pro Street Duster
http://www.cyberbiker.ca/duster

firedome

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Posts: 3644
    • View Profile
Auto Company Bailout
« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2008, 03:33:19 AM »

Good points made by all... apparently it IS true that the new union
contract will address much of the problem, if the companies can last
that long ... I can tell you one  thing for sure: legacy costs to
retires can kill a comapny: Bethlehem Steel, who my Dad worked for his
whole career of 38 years, was killed by 15,000 employees trying to
support a company that employed 300,000 right after WWII. Hence the # 6
company in the US of the '60s no longer exists... when they were sold
off by the hedge funds, their newest factories were bought up cheap,
and the rest were scrapped, all workers and retires lost all promised
benefits (you can thank the Supreme court - ironically in their
Studebaker decision, for the right of  companies to abrogate
retirement pension & benefit clauses).  Meantime Accelor-Metal
of India, or whatever it's called these days, pays slave wages to
workers in dangerous, polluting factories,  is # 1 in the world,
bigger than US Steel.  It is a race to the bottom.



Re: Packard - they'd abandoned Series for all intents and purposes, as
a marketing tool by the early-mid 50s - my '56 Patrician was sold as
such, although the Series nomencature remained as a vestige of
tradition.  Jim Nance, the former Hotpoint Appliance King, made
the mistake of moving production from Grand Ave to a former Chrysler
factory that was way too small, costly to convert, and resulted in poor
assembly, right at the critical '55 intro, and  then merging with
Studebacker, killing the remaing Packard cachet, and getting dragged
down by a weaker company that was more interested in defense contracts,
a real pity... the Packard 352/374 V-8 was probably the best American
auto engine ever built... the Ultramatic was another story.



Logged
Fuselage C-Body Power!!!

Johnny D.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Posts: 856
    • View Profile
Auto Company Bailout
« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2008, 03:51:32 AM »


Firedome, didn't Packard use a GM trans at one point only to ditch it for the ultra? might have been late 40's dont remember... its a shame they went out...

and on this other thing...
Cute but no... and why do people go right for the negative comments...

that "difference in building cost" is all ifs and buts... the " 2% difference" between the 2 sellers isnt the real gripe people have.... if that was the case congress will probably just make the import companies raise they're percentages through some type of tarrif law.

We all know the theres a 400 dollar difference between .05 x 20,000 is a 1000  and .07 x 20,000 = 1400... maybe to some people though 400.00 is a nice chunk of change. maybe enough to get them out of a malibu and into an accord... i dunno imports aren't my bit.

And since the domestic companies usually have to discount their product by more than those import competitors, through incentives and breaks, i guess the domestic company takes one for the team there too.. total cost then pay employees, only to sell at rate below competitor, so they can loose money on both ends. wonderful business model. lets not even get into down the line returns like resale, that could possibly justify that difference.

My point is that 1400.00 or whatever on the 7% scale is still the number we the consumer have pay to have the thing built... and if its expontentially inclusive based on total vechile cost than we as car buying public are shoveling out 4,200 dollars to labor on a 60,000 dollar car. And on top models the 2% gap gains a lot of tread to a 1200 dollar space between 5 and 7%.

A car that was made in line, with more robot help thant the guys 35 years ago could have imagined... i guess the guy putting brake lines on a luxury car has a hell of a lot harder job than the poor shmoe puttin em on a econobox, is that fair to the buyer? Or is it fair to the guys building those 5%ers, they're not worth as much, the works not as good?

Looks like I read ok after all.

numbers are funny they're all buddy buddy and then bam they just turn on ya....

I buy American by the way.


MobStaffCar722008-12-01 09:37:54
Logged

"Rock and Roll's been going downhill ever since Buddy Holly died."- John Milner

Carl

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Posts: 25
    • View Profile
Auto Company Bailout
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2008, 04:31:08 AM »

No matter how it is explained you aren't going to understand so I give up.
Logged

1973 Pro Street Duster
http://www.cyberbiker.ca/duster

Stitcherbob

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Posts: 13606
    • View Profile
Auto Company Bailout
« Reply #35 on: December 01, 2008, 05:48:17 AM »

Mobby, I heard that it takes 40 hours for a BMW Z4 roadster to go from raw steel to a finished car....in South Carolina.....40 hours X a wage of say, $25 per hour is only 1000 to build the whole car....on a $42,000 car

Logged
They treat me like dirt! I'm better than dirt! Well better than most kinds of dirt. Maybe not as good as store-bought dirt.Thats got nutrients & stuff

Stitcherbob

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Posts: 13606
    • View Profile
Auto Company Bailout
« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2008, 05:52:13 AM »

Logged
They treat me like dirt! I'm better than dirt! Well better than most kinds of dirt. Maybe not as good as store-bought dirt.Thats got nutrients & stuff

Bill Mounteer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Posts: 340
    • View Profile
Auto Company Bailout
« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2008, 08:11:58 AM »


Quote from: stitcherbob
Mobby, I heard that it takes 40 hours for a BMW Z4 roadster to go from raw steel to a finished car....in South Carolina.....40 hours X a wage of say, $25 per hour is only 1000 to build the whole car....on a $42,000 car

Interesting logic, but don't you yourself charge a bench rate rather than a hourly wage?

Logged
Some days you eat bear, some days the bear eats you!

Johnny D.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Posts: 856
    • View Profile
Auto Company Bailout
« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2008, 08:30:42 AM »




Also more than one guy is building that BMW, say its 5... your rate goes up exponentially then doesn't it? and anyway, since that company is  in that 5% bracket its really 2000 dollars labor cost...

and its on volume... its 2000 bucks a car... im sure bimmer makes more than 1 z4 a  work week... also its a BMW you're paying alot for that propeller badge... which is kind of the point...

either way BMW doesn't need a bailout....

try finding the sub 20,000 non utilitarian silverado i think i alread mentioned the aveo and the like... money in car sales was always in the options... not in the stripped down models...

MobStaffCar722008-12-01 13:37:19
Logged

"Rock and Roll's been going downhill ever since Buddy Holly died."- John Milner

Carl

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Posts: 25
    • View Profile
Auto Company Bailout
« Reply #39 on: December 01, 2008, 09:04:24 AM »

Then wages shouldn't even be the issue.
Logged

1973 Pro Street Duster
http://www.cyberbiker.ca/duster

Snotty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Posts: 3972
    • View Profile
Auto Company Bailout
« Reply #40 on: December 01, 2008, 12:53:25 PM »

Quote from: stitcherbob
I just turned 178,000 in the 2000 Neon....it has done most of that at WOT and 75mph averaging 25mpg.....why did they kill the Neon?
 
So they could offer you the Caliber!!  What??  Don't you want to buy a car that looks like a Nissan copy?
Logged
It's green here in Chico!!

Carl

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Posts: 25
    • View Profile
Auto Company Bailout
« Reply #41 on: December 01, 2008, 12:58:45 PM »

 Bad Mouthing American / Canadian Vehicles -  Get the Facts Straight !






Logged

1973 Pro Street Duster
http://www.cyberbiker.ca/duster

Snotty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Posts: 3972
    • View Profile
Auto Company Bailout
« Reply #42 on: December 01, 2008, 12:59:35 PM »

Quote from: Ram3500Dually
Its a myth that Jap cars last longer or are better built than american cars. Americans that bought Jap cars said this to justify the sale. I  have 450K on my show van, replaced tranny once and just put a new engine in this summer. The paint on it is the original that I did when I first built it in 1984. I had an 86 Omni with 400K on it when I got hit broadside and totalled.
 
I agree with you, and am gald someone said it.  I've had great luck will all of my cars and am yet to buy a foriegn one.  (The Mecerdes was given to me for those of you who might want to correct me.)
 
But, please, they are "Japanese" cars.  "Jap" is a derogatory term that I wish was removed from our lexicon.  World War II is over.
 
Thanks
Logged
It's green here in Chico!!

Snotty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Posts: 3972
    • View Profile
Auto Company Bailout
« Reply #43 on: December 01, 2008, 01:01:00 PM »

Quote from: hurst1
...they've been making electric cars for 10 years and they couldn't give them away......so the "if they'd build it, I'd buy it" argument is also a bunch of horse hockey
 
Right on Stevo!
Logged
It's green here in Chico!!

Matt Aker

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Posts: 371
    • View Profile
Auto Company Bailout
« Reply #44 on: December 01, 2008, 01:08:57 PM »

Quote from: Snotty
World War II is over.
 
Not to many veterans of the Pacific Theatre, my G-Dad being one of them.  He strongly disliked the Japanese until the day he died in 2003.  When MacArthur liberated the Philippines he was there...
 
Sorry Snotty, I had to say it.
 
Logged
Matt

I love don't YOU?  Cause I never grew up!
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5   Go Up
 

© 2008-2014 Steve Hobby • © 2015 Allpar, LLC