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413 industrial

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moparmanof85 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moparmanof85 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 413 industrial
    Posted: Oct/29/2010 at 7:10PM
what is the purpose for the water line that runs from the water pump housing to the intake manifold?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snotty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/29/2010 at 9:38PM
Water pump by-pass.  Your water pump never stops turning when the motor runs, so it constantly moves the coolant.  The coolant has to move somewhere, even when the thermostat is closed, so the bypass allows for a constant movement.  Without it something would go POP real quick.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alderman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/29/2011 at 1:28PM
Hey
I think snotty is right. He has good knowledge. I hope above suggestion will help you.
All the best!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ruppster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/12/2011 at 5:49PM
 
Saw your older question about this subject and was going to reply to it but the thread was locked. So I will toss my two cents in to this thread. From what I've been told about the pipe is that it's there for two reasons:
 
1.) Help give a place for air pockets in the coolant passages of the heads and intake to bleed out of.
 
2.) Allow warm coolant from the heads to circulate up in to the intake to warm the incoming air up for colder climates.
 
When I first became interested in the 361/413 truck engines I was told you could not change intakes because of these two issues. Not unless you changed over to standand car type cylinder heads at the same time (along with the water pump). But I think what I was told may be wrong. The intake manifold gasket on a truck 361/413 is different from the one used in car engines. If I remember the picture I saw of the truck intake manifold gasket correctly the coolant passage that goes from the head to the intake (it's in the same spot the exhaust crossover port is on a car engine) is blocked off completely on one side (I didn't see any pinhole in it for air) and the coolant passage on the other side is restricted but not closed off. If air pockets in the cylinder head coolant passages was one of the reasons for the pipe then I doubt they would have blocked off the coolant from one side.
 
So after seeing what the intake gasket looks like I would have to say that it is not for getting air pockets out of the heads. But it would still be needed to get the air pocket out of the intake coolant passage. Since your previous thread was asking about changing intakes then that shouldn't be a problem. But to be sure I would look at the intake manifold gasket that's on the stock intake. If one side of the coolant passage from one head is blocked off like I think then you should be fine. But if there is a pinhole in it to allow air to go up in to the intake manifold then I would say you are stuck with a stock intake. That or find an aftermarket intake with an egr port and make a block-off plate with a pipe fitting to allow the coolant to circulate through one side of the block-off plate to the water pump.
 
On a different note in the other thread someone else mentioned the engines with gear drive cams were reverse rotation engines. That is not correct. The crank rotates normally, only the cam was reversed. Dodge advertised it as one of the reasons the industrial engines were made for low maintenance and long life. The crankshafts were still the same between gear drive and chain drive cams. The gear drive for the cam was used on industrial 361's and 413's up to 1971 or 1972. That was when Dodge changed the industrial engines over to a chain drive for the cams. All 361/413's after that came with chain driven cams. Since the cam turned the other direction in order for the oil pump shaft to turn the same way as the car engines the gear teeth that were on the cam that drove the oil pump shaft gear were cut the other direction. It's the difference in the angle of the teeth on the cam that makes it easier to tell a reverse rotation cam from a chain driven cam. I have several sevice manuals for the industrial 413 truck engines and they show pics of both types of gear angles in the engine section. It is easy to change a gear driven cam over to a chain drive type. Other then the cam you will need the gear drive for the oil pump/distributor shaft along with a new distributor (the tip on the end of the distributor for a gear driven cam is off-set from center and will not work with the chain drive set-up).
 
Anyhow, back to the original question. As I said check the stock intake manifold gasket. If the coolant passage from one side is completely blocked off (i.e. no pinhole for air to escape) like I think it is then you should be okay to change manifolds. But if you are going to keep the stock manifold I would leave the pipe there as the intake needs a way for any air pockets to vent out.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snotty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/12/2011 at 7:07PM
Rupp, welcome, but this is a dead thread.  The original question was posted in October.

Edited by Snotty - May/12/2011 at 7:07PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote POLARACO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/12/2011 at 8:05PM
Hey Rupp
 
Thank you for Serving!
 
Pay no attention to Snotty. . .  He's just a cranky old Fart!
 
WELCOME!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1965Windsor361 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/12/2011 at 8:38PM
I think it was great info.. thanks for sharing...
Jason

(Eileen)1965 Chrysler Windsor, 361/727/2.76 16.49 @ 86 mph
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ruppster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/12/2011 at 9:01PM
Originally posted by Snotty Snotty wrote:

Rupp, welcome, but this is a dead thread.  The original question was posted in October.
 
Yes, I knew it was an old thread and the last post was January of this year but so what? Don't mean to sound like a jerk but there never was a clear answer and I thought I would add some additional info in case someone else wanted to know the same thing. Plus I wanted to correct who ever said the engines with gear driven cams were reverse rotation engines as that was not true.
 
Sorry if I offended anyone by bringing up a "dead" thread.
 
 
Ruppster
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stitcherbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/12/2011 at 9:21PM
Welcome Rupp.....is your handle anything to do with these?


They treat me like dirt! Well I'm better than dirt! Well better than most kinds of dirt. Maybe not as good as that store-bought dirt. That dirt's packed with nutrients. I can't compete with that stuff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1965Windsor361 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/13/2011 at 7:50AM
COOOOOOL !!!! I want one.
Jason

(Eileen)1965 Chrysler Windsor, 361/727/2.76 16.49 @ 86 mph
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote firedome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/13/2011 at 9:30AM
I remember those...didn't they make mini-bikes too?



Edited by firedome - May/13/2011 at 9:30AM
Fuselage C-Body Power!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote POLARACO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/13/2011 at 3:41PM
Originally posted by Ruppster Ruppster wrote:

Originally posted by Snotty Snotty wrote:

Rupp, welcome, but this is a dead thread.  The original question was posted in October.
 
Yes, I knew it was an old thread and the last post was January of this year but so what? Don't mean to sound like a jerk but there never was a clear answer and I thought I would add some additional info in case someone else wanted to know the same thing. Plus I wanted to correct who ever said the engines with gear driven cams were reverse rotation engines as that was not true.
 
Sorry if I offended anyone by bringing up a "dead" thread.
  
Ruppster  
 
Don't give it a second thought Rupp. Please
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As said, that was great information. Bring on some more wisdom. Big smile


Edited by POLARACO - May/13/2011 at 3:42PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moparmanof85 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/13/2011 at 10:52PM
WOW... that only took a few months... That is a Great point about the intake gasket... Now that i think about it, I believe both sides were wide open. I did see an intake made  by Edelbrock that was a high rise set up for the 413. The bolt pattern matches, but bolts on like you set a chair on the floor. Ya know, with 4 corner legs and space in between themEDL-2891.jpg

I can still bolt on the water line with this model. Its the Edelbrock Super Victor from Summit Racing.  Now we can change the carb and the intake. What yall think????
If it aint broke, dont fix it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moparmanof85 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/13/2011 at 10:54PM
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-2891/?rtype=10


thats the site you can see the pic if it doesn't show in the previous post.

If it aint broke, dont fix it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ruppster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/14/2011 at 4:57PM
Originally posted by stitcherbob stitcherbob wrote:

Welcome Rupp.....is your handle anything to do with these?


 
 
Nope, it was my radio handle from when I was in the Air Force. It's based on my last name. :) 
 
 
Ruppster
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ruppster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/14/2011 at 5:17PM
Originally posted by moparmanof85 moparmanof85 wrote:

WOW... that only took a few months... That is a Great point about the intake gasket... Now that i think about it, I believe both sides were wide open. I did see an intake made  by Edelbrock that was a high rise set up for the 413. The bolt pattern matches, but bolts on like you set a chair on the floor. Ya know, with 4 corner legs and space in between themEDL-2891.jpg

I can still bolt on the water line with this model. Its the Edelbrock Super Victor from Summit Racing.  Now we can change the carb and the intake. What yall think????
 
Here's a pic of the intake manifold gasket for a 413 industrial engine. Came from eBay.
 
 
 
 
 
From the looks of it the coolant passages are blocked off and might have a small hole in one side (or maybe both). If your old gasket had both holes completely open then it might have been an intake gasket for a car engine.
 
As far as the intake you linked to I would say it is a good option. Weld a couple of pipe fittings over the spots where the coolant passages are and make a y-pipe and you should be good to go. I want to put a fuel injected 6-pak setup on a 413 in a heavy duty Dodge truck (either a D800 or C800) and have been looking in to how to incorporate the coolant tube. That's why I had some knowledge on this issue as I've been looking in to what you want to do myself. I've put that idea on a shelf for the time being though as I have a lot of work to do to my current truck. It's a 1972 Dodge HCF CN900 with a 318 hp 2 stroke Detroit Diesel V8 (8V71) and a 13 speed Roadranger transmission. :) 
 
 
Ruppster
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote POLARACO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/14/2011 at 6:05PM
Originally posted by moparmanof85 moparmanof85 wrote:

WOW... that only took a few months...

 
 
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